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Author Topic: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?  (Read 1019 times)

LordBrassroast

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Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« on: May 11, 2018, 09:01:40 am »

Does anyone have any tips on efficiently building magma forges with the magma coming from a volcano? Efficient designs, optimal placement, how to take advantage of lava pressure, how to keep dwarf casualties to a minimum? If you have any suggestions I'd greatly appreciate them.
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Ulfarr

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2018, 10:41:49 am »

I 'm not sure about how efficient it is but it's a simple and certainly safe method since I had no magma accidents in my last two volcano embarks.

1) Locate the top most magma layer inside the volcano. Dig a room on the side of the volcano (caldera?) to act as a magma pool for your workshops. Dig a 1 tile wide tunnel toward the magma but don't connect it with the actual magma layer yet.

2) On the level above, dig out rooms for your workshops.

3) Clean both areas from any items (stone, discarded clothing, whatever) that you want to use later. Designating said items for dumping  can be faster than waiting for the stockpiles to generate the neccesary jobs.

4) Once the areas are clean enough. Build any walls necessary to block any access to your magma reservoir.

5) On the workshop's level designate a tunnel to be dug right on top of the reservoir's one. Channel down the last tile so magma can start flowing inside the reservoir. Build a wall on the tile you just channeled down.

Bumber

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2018, 12:36:44 pm »

I would suggest having a drawbridge to block off the magma flow after your workshops are powered. You don't want your smiths getting shot at by magma crabs and fire imps.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 12:38:26 pm by Bumber »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2018, 12:48:11 pm »

Bumber doesn't ramble as much as I do, and so covered the essential part of the below while I typed it...

Magma, unlike water, is unpressurized unless a pump creates pressure. That means it won't flow upwards when passing through a breach, even if you weren't at the top level.

I broadly use Ulfarr's method for magma forges by the magma sea. However, I'm a bit of a coward, so I add safety features:
- The magma isn't in a channel, but in a tunnel. I then make a hole in the roof of that tunnel for each workshop and place the workshops such as an impassable tile is on top of the hole.
- I add an outer drawbridge by the tile separating the tunnel from the magma. This two tile long drawbridge is magma safe and hooked up with a magma safe mechanism.
- Inside of that I add a wall grate (magma safe). won't stop building destroyers, but should delay them enough to crush them with the outer bridge.
- Inside of that I provide for the future addition of a magma stack (or pump, if at the top level of a volcano), should I feel a need to build one. This is done in the form of a hole in the roof covered with a magma safe floor grate.
- Inside of that I have a second drawbridge.
- Inside of that I have my magma loading station, for loading magma into mine carts. This is a 3 tile sideways branch of the magma tunnel with a hole in the roof in the magma tunnel itself and at the end of the side tunnel, covered by magma safe grates (this allows for the building of a screw pump in the two tile space between the grates).
- Inside of that I have a third drawbridge.
- Inside of that I have the magma for the workshops.
- I test the drawbridges when built to ensure they were indeed raising ones.
- Once tested, and the facilities above have been built i channel through the last tile to let the magma in, and immediately brick up or floor over the breach at the workshop level (in the case of a volcano it would have to be a wall, as it's open space outside).
- Once the magma facilities part of the setup is full of magma to at least 6/7 I close the third drawbridge, never to open it again (unless I expand, for some reason).
- The drawbridge outside of the magma loading station is opened after closing only if I run low of magma to load, which happens occasionally. It's closed again as the stock is replenished.
- The outermost drawbridge is opened of a pump stack is operated or the magma loading station needs to be topped up, but is closed otherwise.

There is also a somewhat exploity way of safely breaching into magma when you're not at the top level by (ab)using a ramp digging quirk. I've never used that method (I've haven't had the need since I heard of it: going for the top level has been sufficient for me so far).
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Sanctume

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2018, 01:19:53 pm »

In my recent v44.09 Vault-128 project, the forges is a basic tap of the volcano from the top most magma level; channel to tap, have bridge to close magma source after, and wall off the area breaching the volcano.

The Design: Magma Source, Volcano Tap has reference quote to an old quote digging any z-level volcano wall from below a retracting bridge safely. 



doublestrafe

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2018, 04:27:07 pm »

Magma, unlike water, is unpressurized unless a pump creates pressure. That means it won't flow upwards when passing through a breach, even if you weren't at the top level.
This is not entirely true. A volcano will fill itself to the top level. I rerouted a river onto my volcano to build myself a floor, and obsidian'd the top level. Then I hollowed it out into a workspace and when I tapped into the floor, magma was very soon seeping upward.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2018, 04:59:22 pm »

Magma, unlike water, is unpressurized unless a pump creates pressure. That means it won't flow upwards when passing through a breach, even if you weren't at the top level.
This is not entirely true. A volcano will fill itself to the top level. I rerouted a river onto my volcano to build myself a floor, and obsidian'd the top level. Then I hollowed it out into a workspace and when I tapped into the floor, magma was very soon seeping upward.
I believe it actually IS true, because of the convoluted way magma pipes work. The magma doesn't actually seep upwards, but rains downwards from the top level of the magma pipe (a volcano is just a magma pipe that breaks the surface). This is true as long as there's an unobstructed line between the SMR to the maximum level of the magma. If the line is broken, the rain starts at the top unbroken level above the SMR instead. Also, this rain actually affects the whole tile the magma pipe resides in, so if you break the roof of the magma sea inside the pipe's tile, but outside of the pipe itself it starts to rain there as well. That can be quite dangerous...
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doublestrafe

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2018, 06:22:52 pm »

Magma, unlike water, is unpressurized unless a pump creates pressure. That means it won't flow upwards when passing through a breach, even if you weren't at the top level.
This is not entirely true. A volcano will fill itself to the top level. I rerouted a river onto my volcano to build myself a floor, and obsidian'd the top level. Then I hollowed it out into a workspace and when I tapped into the floor, magma was very soon seeping upward.
I believe it actually IS true, because of the convoluted way magma pipes work. The magma doesn't actually seep upwards, but rains downwards from the top level of the magma pipe (a volcano is just a magma pipe that breaks the surface). This is true as long as there's an unobstructed line between the SMR to the maximum level of the magma. If the line is broken, the rain starts at the top unbroken level above the SMR instead. Also, this rain actually affects the whole tile the magma pipe resides in, so if you break the roof of the magma sea inside the pipe's tile, but outside of the pipe itself it starts to rain there as well. That can be quite dangerous...
If that's the case, then how does the volcano refill itself if I plug it and then use the dfhack liquids plugin to remove some of the magma under the plug, with no access to the surface level?
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Sanctume

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2018, 06:24:19 pm »

Volcano has special biome, at a certain z-level, it reproduces the magma.  Think rain in that z-level and if the liquid can be on the tile and flow, it will fill up.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2018, 01:58:56 am »

Magma, unlike water, is unpressurized unless a pump creates pressure. That means it won't flow upwards when passing through a breach, even if you weren't at the top level.
This is not entirely true. A volcano will fill itself to the top level. I rerouted a river onto my volcano to build myself a floor, and obsidian'd the top level. Then I hollowed it out into a workspace and when I tapped into the floor, magma was very soon seeping upward.
I believe it actually IS true, because of the convoluted way magma pipes work. The magma doesn't actually seep upwards, but rains downwards from the top level of the magma pipe (a volcano is just a magma pipe that breaks the surface). This is true as long as there's an unobstructed line between the SMR to the maximum level of the magma. If the line is broken, the rain starts at the top unbroken level above the SMR instead. Also, this rain actually affects the whole tile the magma pipe resides in, so if you break the roof of the magma sea inside the pipe's tile, but outside of the pipe itself it starts to rain there as well. That can be quite dangerous...
If that's the case, then how does the volcano refill itself if I plug it and then use the dfhack liquids plugin to remove some of the magma under the plug, with no access to the surface level?
I believe I answered that in the quoted section. If access to the top level is blocked, rain starts at the highest level "visible" from the SMR tile below, i.e. immediately below the obsidian plug.
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Dragonborn

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2018, 09:27:29 am »

Alternatively, you could do what I do and just build a suspended room inside the volcano one level above the magma.  This isn't as flexible as routing magma to where ever you want with pipes, but it's safer.

It will need to be completely sealed from the top, so don't forget to build a ceiling. Otherwise you'll have an opening into your fort.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2018, 11:43:17 am »

I would always use an exploit that PatrikLundell mentioned (it's the same one used to empty oceans). It isn't more exploity than atom smashers, quantum stockpiles, micro reactors, danger rooms or some other I won't mention but I use frequently. I've checked recently, it still works in v.0.44.10. This is completely safe method (*), I've used it with magma pipes. Why endanger a dwarven life for such a trifle matter if there's a choice?

*)assuming you did it correctly. Other restrictions may apply.
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redivider

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2018, 02:09:52 pm »

The "put impassable tile over the hole" used to not work for some time and idk if it was fixed because some creatures can move diagonally up/down. I Always block the flow with a bridge nowadays so idk but I remember a few years ago when I learnt that diagonal movement concept by losing my legendary weapon and armorsmith.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2018, 03:41:27 pm »

The reason for placing an impassable tile on top of the hole is not to keep critters from entering, as that should be done with drawbridges, but stopping dorfs from falling into the magma.
The diagonal movement bug has been fixed either in the current release or the next one.
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Sanctume

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Re: Any tips on building Magma Forges using volcanoes?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2018, 04:46:28 pm »

diagonal movement is prevented when constructed floors are placed though.