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Author Topic: Megabeasts should get TRAPAVOID  (Read 1338 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Megabeasts should get TRAPAVOID
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2018, 08:20:31 pm »

It would probably be best if Toady simply put a size limit on cage traps. Players could trap larger things with a combination of pressure plates and drawbridges, using fluid or mine cart logic to make it a one-shot thing if that's what you want. When Toady overhauls traps I'm hoping he focuses more on providing ways to power traps and perhaps allowing rooms to be designated as traps. Most of the other components are already there, if you're creative.

Here's the plan so far:

Quote
Better traps
 Stone traps should require the stone be placed above the tile that is targeted
 Stones should be able to roll (perhaps if they are started from or land on a ramp tile)
 Weapon traps should be multi-tile and require a spring or other potential energy source -- automatic resetting should require some explicit establishment of a feasible mechanism

Large pipe sections -- walk on them or crawl inside them, allow passage for fluids

Moving fortress sections (lifts, crushing traps, etc.)
Waterproof axles through some mechanism

Rock grinders? Fans? We'll do some other machines around this time -- whichever feasible ones are the most entertaining for dwarves and treasure hunters

And on their use in improved sieges (sadly the traps part of it, besides better planning to avoid known traps, aren't part of the upcoming improved sieges updates, but later when moving fortress parts are added):

Quote
Many trap exploits are handled above by requiring more to produce a trap, things like cage traps should make more sense vs. large creatures etc. (respect strength/ability vs. material, large cages might be separate object)

Coming up with a plan to overcome pathing obstacles to reach fortress innards
Ability to dig (optionally, default on)
Ability to build bridges/ramps
Ability to use grappling hooks/ladders/climb
Learning from mistakes if first attempted assault plan fails badly
For instance, if many siegers are killed, caged, etc. in a given hallway, they shouldn't generally go that way again, even if that means building/climbing/digging

So, build an elaborate trap, dragon might get caught in it, but if your trap corridor is a mountain of severed goblin parts and caged trolls, it might actually figure out a better way to get in. Or go home.
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Bumber

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Re: Megabeasts should get TRAPAVOID
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2018, 10:13:48 pm »

I didn't know NO_STUN prevented cage trapping. I'll definitely be adding that tag to my own megabeasts.
It doesn't, per se. TRAPAVOID prevents creatures from triggering traps normally. However, traps will still trigger if they become stunned, unconscious, or webbed. The common method of stunning is to use cave-in dust. NO_STUN takes that option away.

Webbing works if you have access to a GCS or webbing FB. (Note: Webbers are immune to webs. FBs are NO_STUN, so you basically can't cage webbing FBs.)

The last option, unconscious, can be caused by pain. You run the risk of killing the creature, though, and they're definitely going to be injured. FB syndromes can cause it, too. Are FBs immune to pain? IDK.
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

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thompson

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Re: Megabeasts should get TRAPAVOID
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2018, 03:20:42 am »

Thanks Bumber. That makes sense. In that case, while I don't agree with the original suggestion exactly, more tags to define behaviour around traps would be nice. Hopefully it comes with the trap re-vamp.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Megabeasts should get TRAPAVOID
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2018, 03:47:58 am »

Thanks Bumber. That makes sense. In that case, while I don't agree with the original suggestion exactly, more tags to define behaviour around traps would be nice. Hopefully it comes with the trap re-vamp.
I would rather not have something as hard-coded as a tag which dictates that "all kobolds are immune to traps".
With the trap revamp I'd hope that with innovative thinking and masterwork components, a legendary mechanic could build something that would fool your average kobold into ending up in a cage or skewered on a spike.
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