Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity  (Read 940 times)

EDog

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
[Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« on: May 17, 2018, 02:07:08 am »

Hey everyone,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged

Luriant

  • Bay Watcher
  • Mediocre english, sorry
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2018, 02:45:01 am »

Low quality mechanism make low skill attacks, easy to dodge.

Non-Magma safe mechanism can be melted by magma clowns. Fire-safe is 11000 U, but the real fire can have 200U more, melting some "fire-safe" materials (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Fire)
Dragon fire melt everything at some radius, except constructions, and shields equipped. (can be clowns generated with Dragon Fire material?

Sorry, i didin't read the candy mechanism.

I don't have any other clue, but i love Upright Spikes and door, a change in the behavior is a change in my defense strategy.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 05:19:08 am by Luriant »
Logged
╔══╦══╗██▓▓
☺♠┼╥╤┼▲▼▓
Θ║πΩ║      ▓
+═╬══╣    ▓
≈≈▒‼^
╚══╩══╝
  Σ Spkd Grn Glss Blls 252☼ 2.6Γ

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 04:09:49 am »

I use menacing spikes made out of glass powered by a mine cart repeater quite a lot, latest in 0.44.05. While I haven't engaged clowns, they still worked fine against FBs (although fire based FBs destroyed the trap, although they died as well). It can be noted that I make my traps with 10 spikes for maximum efficiency.

Given a candy mechanism the clowns couldn't have melted the trap. Since they appear to have melted an artifact door, I assume they were fire based, in which case they should be rather flimsy (when hit...).

Dodging is my best guess here. I've certainly used glass spikes against clowns in the past, with great success (some clowns were tough and managed to get further than expected, though). Glass melting is a new issue that needs to be dealt with, however.
Logged

Saiko Kila

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dwarven alchemist
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 04:18:20 am »

This is also my method of choice, but I was unable to test it in current fort yet (I just discovered magma and other resources). But if this was case of dodges/misses, there should be a report, I think. Also, the spikes should be visible and said whether they are up or down. Check if they are raising - maybe there is a new mechanics which prevents them from raising when there's something big on them? Additionally there were changes to behaviour of projectiles (to fix bugs), which I haven't analysed yet (creatures on bridges, dodging ones, thrown etc. are handled as projectiles temporarily, which may or may not be relevant).
Logged

EDog

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 10:39:37 am »

I thought that dodging produced combat reports? I also didn't observe any of them moving tiles while I watched--many of the adjacent spaces stayed empty the whole time. I was hoping to get someone else to confirm that it doesn't work so I could it it in the wiki--there's always a chance I've made some dumb mistake like pulling the wrong lever... I'll see if I can see them raising and retracting using q, I didn't think of that before. I'd be surprised if they were prevented from raising, but it's possible.
Logged

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2018, 11:18:50 am »

The trap not actually being operated would definitely match the behavior seen, either because the wrong lever was pulled or because the trap wasn't actually hooked up.
Logged

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2018, 04:48:46 pm »

Given a candy mechanism the clowns couldn't have melted the trap.
Is that true? Is candy still safe from the new dragonfire mechanics?
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. Was this inevitable (Y/y)?

EDog

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2018, 07:52:13 pm »

Okay, I tried it again and the trap definitely worked, I could see the spike appearing and retracting in the same tile as a big group of clowns. Maybe I'll try a minecart grinder instead? I made lots of lead minecarts for the purpose...

Oh, and Bumber, the wiki says repeat exposure to dragon fire will eventually melt candy! I'm amazed. What next, trolls breaking down constructed walls?
Logged

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2018, 09:09:59 pm »

Given a candy mechanism the clowns couldn't have melted the trap.
Is that true? Is candy still safe from the new dragonfire mechanics?
The candy melting point seems to be 25000 and fire based creatures have a temperature of 14000, while the wiki says dragon fire has a temperature of 50000, so candy mechanisms should indeed be destroyed eventually if breathed upon. I see no reason for fire breathers to breathe any fire in the described situation, though, as there's no target available for attack. However, it's curious the door was melted.
Logged

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2018, 10:16:18 pm »

I see no reason for fire breathers to breathe any fire in the described situation, though, as there's no target available for attack. However, it's curious the door was melted.
Fire clowns explode on death.
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. Was this inevitable (Y/y)?

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2018, 01:52:08 am »

I see no reason for fire breathers to breathe any fire in the described situation, though, as there's no target available for attack. However, it's curious the door was melted.
Fire clowns explode on death.
If a fire clown exploding on death caused the door to melt, a fire clown ought to have died, presumably due to the spike(s), in which case it actually did work, although possibly not as well as desired?
Logged

Saiko Kila

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dwarven alchemist
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2018, 01:58:06 am »

I had doors and bridges melted by clown just being near them, not attacking (it was in older versions). I just assume it's their temperature which causes it. High temperature objects can melt surrounding area and evaporate pools of water too - though normally the ones I think about are not available in fortress mode - specifically angelic weapons. I'm not sure if clowns can carry similar equipment, would be fun.
Logged

EDog

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [Spoilers] Unexpected clown immunity
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2018, 07:18:37 pm »

None of them died or suffered injuries, I'm pretty certain they just melted the door with their body heat.
Logged