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[Meph]

Roses scripts make adding magic a lot easier: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=152762.0

He even has one that turns a unit into a projectile. Perfect for flinging snots and goblins at people...

[fasquardon]

I've been thinking about this on and off since your comment.  I thought the Old Magic was indeed pretty great, but with some major exceptions like the "boiling stone reactions" having a low success rate, so training magic users was pretty frustrating even for players who know the ins and outs of how modding works.  I guess it would be almost impossible to decipher for someone without that background.

I had fun with the old spells though.  Much respect for the modders who really pioneered understanding the possibilities of magic system, but a lot of the spells that were around at first were kinda the same, throwing different kinds of boulders or fire, so i tried to find some things that were a bit different but still effective.  Pain magic was probably the best balanced, it would stun or disarm (sometimes) but not kill.  Blood and decay magic was a little too reliable and safe but it would kill slowly, so i reasoned it served the purpose of a siege weapon and not really turn the tables in a real melee fight.  Frost magic was awesome and unpredictable, IMO worth loosing a few fingers to frostbite now and then    If I, say, sometimes accidentally fight in the mist under a waterfall or in the tide spray and deep freeze the whole battlefield friend and foe alike, eh, losing is fun.  When i lose my only miner and pick in a frozen aquifer because the shaman tried to flash freeze a kea, then yes i too am kind of mad.   My in house beta tester never lost an uruk to frostbite, but then she is also the sort to add a second layer of clothes with mittens and stuff to the uniforms, so what can i say.

In principle I'm up for adding anything back in here but would like to keep it accessible (and more or less balanced to vanilla, for whatever that's worth). 

To be honest the major issue now is still orcs suffering morale spiral from totally routine situations like corpses piling up knee deep everywhere, so the current business is rather tedious fiddling and testing with personality traits and the like, and/or waiting to see how Tarn tweaks the Memory system.

I thought boiling stone reactions worked really well for magic.  It made intuitive sense to me that magic should have an unpredictable element to it that resulted in things going awry if there was a mistake during casting.

With regards to orc cleaning, I always mod in the crematory building for the orcs, since even before 44.xx came out, orc cleaning was too weak for my tastes.  Maybe adding that would be sufficient to prevent any death spirals?  (I've never tested orc psychology the way you have, since I build fortresses like a paranoid.)

Roses scripts make adding magic a lot easier: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=152762.0

He even has one that turns a unit into a projectile. Perfect for flinging snots and goblins at people...

That's for DFHack right?

I'm probably in a minority, but I really don't like being dependent on DFHack (I don't choose an embark without it, but during actual play, I like to leave it off).

fasquardon

[smakemupagus]

Yes i agree, crematory is probably the most important thing missing from this package right now.  That is a good call.

[JAK]

I just want to say that while I do not play them, I LOVE playing against them. Orcs are painfully missing from vanilla and their menace has always been a big draw for me. I hope support for them continues.

[smakemupagus]

thanks for the note JAK!  I almost exclusively play orcs so impressions/feedback from the other side are always good to know

[Kars]

Do you think the orcs are a little sensitive, emotionally? I've played as humans and as dwarves and it seems as though the orcs are the most sensitive of all the races. They're very susceptible to stress from seeing strangers die, which seems a little odd for orcs

[smakemupagus]

Dwarfs get a very small reduction to stress vulnerability I think (their stress vulnerability median is 45 rather than the nominal 50).  I should probably tweak substantially a number of orcs' PERSONALITY traits, but right now they only have a very small boost to ASSERTIVENESS and EXCITEMENT_SEEKING.

Orcs have slightly lower than normal empathy, which one might think make them slightly more resilient on average to strangers' deaths, although any effect this has is probably more subtle than the Personality traits would be.

Neither of these should be particularly large effects. 

I doubt the orcs' cultural values will have much effect but if anyone is interested they are:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

   [VALUE:LAW:-30]
   [VALUE:LOYALTY:30]
   [VALUE:FAMILY:30]
   [VALUE:FRIENDSHIP:0]
   [VALUE:POWER:50]
   [VALUE:TRUTH:0]
   [VALUE:CUNNING:15]
   [VALUE:ELOQUENCE:-15]
   [VALUE:FAIRNESS:-15]
   [VALUE:DECORUM:-30]
   [VALUE:TRADITION:30]
   [VALUE:ARTWORK:0]
   [VALUE:COOPERATION:-15]
   [VALUE:INDEPENDENCE:30]
   [VALUE:STOICISM:0]
   [VALUE:KNOWLEDGE:-15]
   [VALUE:INTROSPECTION:-15]
   [VALUE:SELF_CONTROL:-15]
   [VALUE:TRANQUILITY:-30]
   [VALUE:HARMONY:0]
   [VALUE:MERRIMENT:15]
   [VALUE:CRAFTSMANSHIP:15]
   [VALUE:MARTIAL_PROWESS:50]
   [VALUE:SKILL:0]
   [VALUE:HARD_WORK:-15]
   [VALUE:SACRIFICE:15]
   [VALUE:COMPETITION:15]
   [VALUE:PERSEVERANCE:15]
   [VALUE:LEISURE_TIME:15]
   [VALUE:COMMERCE:0]
   [VALUE:ROMANCE:-20]
   [VALUE:NATURE:15]
   [VALUE:PEACE:-50]

[smakemupagus]

My last on-forums test fort Talatapushak ended up being a long form study in orcs long descent into madness.  In off-line control forts where there were not severed limbs everywhere, the orcs were fine, more or less like a tidy dwarf fort would be.  I agree that it needs tweaking.

[Blackworth]

Needs more fighting however i love the mod and would like to see it continue development as well as the masterwork compilation.

[Blackworth]

why do orcs get depressed so much?

[FantasticDorf]

why do orcs get depressed so much?

I've had a little time to sit down play a Orc fortress on Masterwork to a 100 citizens, three traumatic siege cleanup's later and ill back myself up that all races (especially after playing with sadistic goblins prior in modded vanilla) initially have a poor reaction but orcs get more upset from inactivity. A "no schedule" (from military scheduling screen) military routine for orcs like a kind of workman's militia to not lose job efficiency and still allow them to do vital jobs + security are typically happy orcs.

@smakemupagus It would seem that you might need to disentangle orcs from space orks if your intention is to bring them into vanilla in a way that doesn't break the setting too bad, since they get smattered into the masterwork mod with the overlapping warhammer total conversion mod also in the pack. On one hand, orcs have some pretty classic flintlocks and muskets but not all of the warhammer conversion mod bits fit (like modern flechette shotguns). Big ships, but then also mass production factories.

There's a sort of WC2:Rising Tides kind of nautical theme appearing the more i think about the freelancers and all the silly meph TBWT eyepatch orks walking around with vaguely disguised 'scimitars' instead of cutlasses. I could definitely dig a more nordic raider theme though as a preference regarding their primary biome.

The Caravansai was fun also, jiggling resources around to get things that i wanted or to a comfortable spot where i could sell booze, to trade for bonemould coins at a profit over break even.

[smakemupagus]

@smakemupagus It would seem that you might need to disentangle orcs from space orks if your intention is to bring them into vanilla in a way that doesn't break the setting too bad

Thanks for the post.  Yes, of course.  Conversely i think it would have been immersion breaking for the orcs in the Masterwork universe to be looting power servos and what not from gnomish scientists and sentient hunter-killer androids and *not* be making weapons out of them.

The full list of added weapons currently in Orc Fort for vanilla are:

tomahawks
flachette gun
atlatl

polehammer
claws
macuahuitl
toothed spear

"Flachette gun" in this context is simply a pre-industrial weapon that happens to fire darts rather than bullets or arrows, not a modern antipersonnel weapon or a WH reference.  (... the "dakkadakka gun" in Orc Fortress for Masterwork of course was a WH reference, but that is a different beast entirely)

[Metaltooth]

How Orky will your Orks be? I need em to be good n Orky to scratch my Waaagh itch

[smakemupagus]

About 3/10 orky?  Warhammer's not really the biggest influence in the mod.

[Metaltooth]

About 3/10 orky?  Warhammer's not really the biggest influence in the mod.

Are they closer to Warcraft orks?