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[scriver]

I don't see the big deal, there were already east coast-

This wouldn't be any more ok just because we'd be another game away from it being wrong though

[Slax]

Ok, time for shenanigans

Imagine that this game's been going strong for 2 years. Aw dang! A big ol' expansion hit last week. More of those sweet sweet quests. Oh, and there's support for vehicles now too.
Main quest: Sea People - Navigate out to the nuclear submarine and look for survivors. You decide to go for it.
You construct a boat and put it in your pocket. Preparations complete. There are hundreds of people on the shore. You die there. Everyone dies. People keep nuking the place. OH WELL. Not to worry. The engine glitched and now every missile gets frozen in the air, spewing high density particle effects all over the land. 1 FPS heaven for everyone. At least you're safe.

You make it out to sea. Plenty of boats out here. Probably too many. You occasionally see some bugged out collisions. Obviously, this causes problems for the engine. Everyone has a low framerate. The physics... stop working. People go flying. Ragdolls flopping around in the sky, getting stretched and warped. But it doesn't crash! No sir, can't have that. 65 minutes of glitching around at sea and you finally make it to the sub. Your boat nudges it. Game freezes for a few seconds. Your headphones/speakers explode as the game spews out 999999999 collision sound effects at once. One frame per 10 seconds. You're in space. Well, everything's black. It's probably space. Now you're under the map. Engine can't update in time and tries to render the whole overworld at once at full LOD. Your graphics card melts through the floor. Ah well. You have better things to do anyway.

A week goes by and your new graphics card shows up in the mail. You modify it, adding liquid nitrogen cooling. Just in case, you know. Great! Back to that game you just can't get enough of.
Oh. Looks like it saved your character at some glitched location. You sneakily peek at the command console to find out where you are. Still looks like space. All black. Oh, these coordinates. 3 world maps away from... the world map. The game thinks that you're falling (even though you seem to be flying) so you can't open your inventory. Locked animation. Can't kill yourself. No suicide command in the console either. You spend 6 hours floating back to the world. This is fine. What an adventure!

You get back to the world. Engine sees this as a VERY unexpected event and again tries to render everything at once. Ah, man! Your beefy rig of a computer, I'm pretty sure it's sweating. You've never seen a case sweat before. Calm down, thing! You pour liquid nitrogen all over it and it works, somehow! (If you still had speakers you would be hearing every player character talking at max volume. All at once, of course.) Engine's buffering. Textures pop in. Fog appears. LOD kicks in. Hey, the world is back to normal!

You stand on the edge of the world and peek down at the infinite darkness you're leaving behind. You think about Todd. You imagine his face. He smiles at you. Wait, this is too real! NO! He grabs you by the arm and puts something in your hand. It's a note. "5% off Skyrim Classic." Todd leans in and whispers in your ear... "Buy my game."

[LoSboccacc]

^^ Yeah, i got around 10 hours in
if i wasnt playing with friends i wouldnt play it. It's pretty bad tbh. It's a very generic themepark MMO set in fallout minus human npcs characters (although i guess holotapes of human conversations are all over the place).
Putting aside all the bugs and the... insanity that is always on mics (or turn off all mics, which i choose.. because FOR SOME REASON YOU CANT EVEN TURN OFF YOUR OWN MIC WITHOUT TURNING OFF EVERYTHING INGAME, if you say want to talk to people via say, discord)
the quests are just... soo... generic... like.. insanely..... fetch questy and escorty missiony..... which stands out even more when a bunch of people are doing them at once.. run to console A, a bunch of poeple are using it in a line... then go to location X and kill 3 bear asses, come back.. UGH). There is some decent lore/fluff text that help disguise it sometimes, and the Voiceacting is decent even if its all robots and holotapes but... it cant stop me from noticing that everything is either go to a console, grab item from chest,  or kill X enemies (and/or collect body part A).
I think in the 10hrs i played only one quest felt slightly different, and it was a `event` quest which everyone nearby could participate in, it was ok but basically just a variant of a really weak world boss that spawns at a location sometimes, and has `ally helicopters` to help you fight it.
The world feels.. really artificial to me, the other real humans seem to make it feel more artificial then make it feel dynamic.

I don't hate it or anything, its bland but not like.. horrible or anything. i wouldnt recommend it to anyone at anywhere near its price though, and while i didn't have any multiplayer bugs, it still has normal bethesda on-release bugs as usual.

Sounds more like a nineties MUD than a modern MMO

[sluissa]

^^ Yeah, i got around 10 hours in
if i wasnt playing with friends i wouldnt play it. It's pretty bad tbh. It's a very generic themepark MMO set in fallout minus human npcs characters (although i guess holotapes of human conversations are all over the place).
Putting aside all the bugs and the... insanity that is always on mics (or turn off all mics, which i choose.. because FOR SOME REASON YOU CANT EVEN TURN OFF YOUR OWN MIC WITHOUT TURNING OFF EVERYTHING INGAME, if you say want to talk to people via say, discord)
the quests are just... soo... generic... like.. insanely..... fetch questy and escorty missiony..... which stands out even more when a bunch of people are doing them at once.. run to console A, a bunch of poeple are using it in a line... then go to location X and kill 3 bear asses, come back.. UGH). There is some decent lore/fluff text that help disguise it sometimes, and the Voiceacting is decent even if its all robots and holotapes but... it cant stop me from noticing that everything is either go to a console, grab item from chest,  or kill X enemies (and/or collect body part A).
I think in the 10hrs i played only one quest felt slightly different, and it was a `event` quest which everyone nearby could participate in, it was ok but basically just a variant of a really weak world boss that spawns at a location sometimes, and has `ally helicopters` to help you fight it.
The world feels.. really artificial to me, the other real humans seem to make it feel more artificial then make it feel dynamic.

I don't hate it or anything, its bland but not like.. horrible or anything. i wouldnt recommend it to anyone at anywhere near its price though, and while i didn't have any multiplayer bugs, it still has normal bethesda on-release bugs as usual.

Sounds more like a nineties MUD than a modern MMO

It even includes poorly written instructions that leave you wondering exactly what you're supposed to use on what else and only a vague guess exactly where it's supposed to be. Somehow this is even the case despite it having a compass with quest waypoints.

[Rift]

Yeah i didn't mention the single super mutant trader, because he doesn't have like.. conversational lines.. just super mutant grunting noises... Theres some robot traders around here and there too, those ones have actual lines. I don't hate the fact human npcs don't exist, i can sortof see its more a vibe they are going for "All the humans died, its just us now", but unless you really really like robots, it means every single quest in the game is either done for yourself ( to acquire something for you) , for a dead human (hornoring their last wishes) or for a robot (who i guess sortof have emotions), that kinda creates a very distinct vibe. (Not necessarily bad, but very distinct, i can see why some people would have a problem with it, since basically no quest will impact sentients/humans/society in any way)

I've gotten farther now (lvl 15!) So i have power armor (which is fallout4 style, and it uh.. magically retracts into your inventory when not in use after awhile, and you can place it down again; the lowest level power armor parts i've found are lvl15, and i've started to see power armor stuff appear once you get to areas where enemies are lvl15+ fairly often). Theres also some bigger enemies these days, bigger mutant animals, bigger robots (jet-style helicopter things). Also laser weapons are becoming more common (weakest laser rifle is lvl15, you can find laser pistols before that though) I even found a mininuke/fatman launcher but its lvl25 so i cant use it.

Someone attacked my house for the first time while i wasnt around, (i could of stored it while not in use, but choose to just leave it around), i didnt notice any message pop up to tell me it was under attack, but i might of missed it.

I agree with corrosivechains that the world doesn't feel that empty to me, theres like stuff everywhere, even not on the map. its prettty hard to go any direction for long (assuming you dont hit the edge of the map) without running into stuff (enemies, significant buildings, sidequests). Players-wise they tend to be concentrated around quest-stuff, becoming slightly more rare as you get further and further from the start area so its not like you never run into them, i run into people every once and awhile. People aren't that violent... on death if you didnt fight back you dont drop anything worthwile and they get a bounty.. so theres very little reason to pvp (there ARE apparently pvp event locations that assign you to teams that fight, but i've only run into one, and it was out of the way so no other players were there)

[LoSboccacc]

but its lvl25 so i cant use it.

So leveled lists AND leveled items, Bethesda getting better and better at balancing stuff

[scriver]

Hey guys what if we had these sort of levels for doing particular things- I'm thinking of calling them skill levels - that decided what you can and can't use?

[Teneb]

Hey guys what if we had these sort of levels for doing particular things- I'm thinking of calling them skill levels - that decided what you can and can't use?

Absolute madness.

[umiman]

Lol - https://np.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/9u71m1/get_ready_for_endless_fun_on_pc/

    Welcome to 5 reasons not to use an engine that you made entirely open and provided all the tools needed to mod that engine in an online game. Oh and how to entirely not secure anything for your users.

    I am as much a Fallout and Bethesda fan as everyone else, I've sunk around 4000 hours into Fallout4 and have been making mods for about 2 years. So when I got into the PC Beta and it allowed me to download the client and files, I started playing with them.

    Number 1: There are no server checks to verify models or file integrity. Want to make trees smaller, or player models bright colors to see them easier? Go right ahead, here are the tools to do it!

    Number 2: Terrain and invisible walls/collision is client side! Want to walk through walls? Open up that beautiful .esm file and edit it. The server doesn't care or check!

    Number 3: Want to save money on server hardware and make ping a little more manageable? Go ahead and open up client to client communication but don't encrypt it or obfuscate it in anyway. Open up Wireshark while playing and nab anyone's IP you want! Send packets to the server to auto use consumables, all very nicely and in plain text! Even get health info and player location, why waste time injecting the executable and getting nabbed by anti-cheat when you can get all info from the network!

    Number 4: Want to grief people and be a God? Go ahead and keep looping the packet captured in Wireshark reporting you gave full HP. Why would the server care about something as little and not game breaking like this?!?! It's a great idea to let the client tell the server it's state and the server not check anything it's being told! The possibilities with this are endless and probably able to just give yourself items by telling the server you picked it up!

    Number 5: Someone in your game being mean? Again have Wireshark? Well let's just forge a packet with the disconnect command in it and knock them offline!

    In conclusion: Bethesda should not have just made Fallout76 by throwing mods on it from Nexus and sold it as a new game. Have fun in the wasteland gamers.

[Egan_BW]

Oh, so that's how they made a functional multiplayer game using an old engine designed only for singleplayer.
They didn't.

[Teneb]

Aww yeah, let's cut costs regardless of consequence!

Seriously though: I often border shill territory for Bethesda stuff, but this insistence on GameBryo/Creation Engine is just stupid. Especially since that they OWN ID SOFTWARE AND SO CAN TOTALLY USE THEIR ENGINES WHICH HAPPEN TO BE VERY GOOD.

I'm sure the Creation Engine is better to secure that feeling of pride and acomplishment in players, though. Don't we all have phones? _/s

[scriver]

It just. Works.

[nenjin]

Goddamn, between this and Blizz/Activision, this has been a hilarious couple of weeks for AAA publishers.

[Slax]

Lol - https://np.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/9u71m1/get_ready_for_endless_fun_on_pc/

    Welcome to 5 reasons not to use an engine that you made entirely open and provided all the tools needed to mod that engine in an online game. Oh and how to entirely not secure anything for your users.

    I am as much a Fallout and Bethesda fan as everyone else, I've sunk around 4000 hours into Fallout4 and have been making mods for about 2 years. So when I got into the PC Beta and it allowed me to download the client and files, I started playing with them.

    Number 1: There are no server checks to verify models or file integrity. Want to make trees smaller, or player models bright colors to see them easier? Go right ahead, here are the tools to do it!

    Number 2: Terrain and invisible walls/collision is client side! Want to walk through walls? Open up that beautiful .esm file and edit it. The server doesn't care or check!

    Number 3: Want to save money on server hardware and make ping a little more manageable? Go ahead and open up client to client communication but don't encrypt it or obfuscate it in anyway. Open up Wireshark while playing and nab anyone's IP you want! Send packets to the server to auto use consumables, all very nicely and in plain text! Even get health info and player location, why waste time injecting the executable and getting nabbed by anti-cheat when you can get all info from the network!

    Number 4: Want to grief people and be a God? Go ahead and keep looping the packet captured in Wireshark reporting you gave full HP. Why would the server care about something as little and not game breaking like this?!?! It's a great idea to let the client tell the server it's state and the server not check anything it's being told! The possibilities with this are endless and probably able to just give yourself items by telling the server you picked it up!

    Number 5: Someone in your game being mean? Again have Wireshark? Well let's just forge a packet with the disconnect command in it and knock them offline!

    In conclusion: Bethesda should not have just made Fallout76 by throwing mods on it from Nexus and sold it as a new game. Have fun in the wasteland gamers.

Now now. They have a full week to fix all of this. More than a week. 8 days! That's one whole extra day. Man, it'll be perfect on release. He he. HE HE HE.

Or not. I was afraid they'd go down this route ever since the reveal. Didn't think they'd be dumb enough to ACTUALLY do it. No, instead they did something worse. It's a bit unbearable. Now, they said that they're pretty much empty whiteboards when it comes to multiplayer. "But we're gonna do it anyway!" They really did. With an established franchise. What a MESS.

So what next, Bethesda? Have the modding community fix your mess? Not gonna happen this time. Scratch that. Looks like 76 will have private servers. Old news. Guess I'm out of the loop. Well GOOD. Modders will get to be server admins now too. Whip up some nice fixes, release them for free on the internet. Have Bethesda just rip them off. AH YES, GOOD. Have your workers pay you, Bethesda. Fan-fucking-tastic. Business gold.

[Sirian]

Aww yeah, let's cut costs regardless of consequence!

Seriously though: I often border shill territory for Bethesda stuff, but this insistence on GameBryo/Creation Engine is just stupid. Especially since that they OWN ID SOFTWARE AND SO CAN TOTALLY USE THEIR ENGINES WHICH HAPPEN TO BE VERY GOOD.

I'm sure the Creation Engine is better to secure that feeling of pride and acomplishment in players, though. Don't we all have phones? _/s

My suspicion is that since these devs have been using the same engine for 2 decades, they are now waaay too lazy to learn the intricacies a different engine. They have all their habits on the old engine and they don't want to change that, so they'll convince themselves that they don't need a new one.

It's part of a general feeling that I get from these big studios : they aren't making games as a passion anymore, they are working jobs, and they have been too cushy  for too long to care about the consequences of that. Maybe only the fresh recruits still have the heart to inject what little passion they can into these games.