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Author Topic: Fallout 76  (Read 30975 times)

Shadowlord

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2018, 08:43:03 am »

not a theory, a goddamn law, that it'll turn into a gank fest within about 6 minutes.

You'd think developers and designers with 25 years of experience would realize many "laws" of the internet and videogames. This isn't Ubisoft, EA or some rando, let the guys have their take in a shared world game before we write reviews on something that cannot even be previewed yet.

The last multiplayer game Bethesda made was SkyNET, a DOS game, which they released in 1996 (22 years ago!) with LAN multiplayer only. Oh, and it was buggy (you could easily get stuck on, like, broken walls and stuff), because if there's one thing Bethesda does consistently, it's release products with glaringly obvious bugs and then leave a bunch of them unfixed.

I'm reserving judgement and doubt I'll be able to run it anyways, but (especially because it's Bethesda) I don't think "they've been making games for 25 years" necessarily means they can automatically succeed at making a good game which is completely different in gameplay and how it needs to be designed because of the kind of game it is. Maybe they've done their research, played a lot of online games and identified what works and what doesn't. Maybe they haven't. We don't know, but we do know that this is not inside their wheelhouse.
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Arbinire

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2018, 09:10:52 am »

not a theory, a goddamn law, that it'll turn into a gank fest within about 6 minutes.

You'd think developers and designers with 25 years of experience would realize many "laws" of the internet and videogames. This isn't Ubisoft, EA or some rando, let the guys have their take in a shared world game before we write reviews on something that cannot even be previewed yet.

The last multiplayer game Bethesda made was SkyNET, a DOS game, which they released in 1996 (22 years ago!) with LAN multiplayer only. Oh, and it was buggy (you could easily get stuck on, like, broken walls and stuff), because if there's one thing Bethesda does consistently, it's release products with glaringly obvious bugs and then leave a bunch of them unfixed.

I'm reserving judgement and doubt I'll be able to run it anyways, but (especially because it's Bethesda) I don't think "they've been making games for 25 years" necessarily means they can automatically succeed at making a good game which is completely different in gameplay and how it needs to be designed because of the kind of game it is. Maybe they've done their research, played a lot of online games and identified what works and what doesn't. Maybe they haven't. We don't know, but we do know that this is not inside their wheelhouse.

The only thing really done by the Maryland branch of Bethesda is the map design.  The Austin branch is the one doing most of the work, and all of the networking, and it's an office filled with people experience in online gaming.

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Mephisto

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #77 on: October 31, 2018, 10:31:26 am »

LONG TIME NO SEE

The beta is totally not a clusterfuck.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #78 on: October 31, 2018, 10:35:58 am »

at least it's spectacular
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MCreeper

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2018, 10:55:36 am »

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Telgin

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #80 on: October 31, 2018, 10:59:21 am »

Makes me wonder how many calculations are done client side and then sent up to the server when they should be done server side.  If turning off V-sync gives you speed boosts, that means the server is trusting movement calculations from the client and not double checking them.

Cheating is going to be hilariously common.
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BurnedToast

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2018, 12:26:58 pm »

Makes me wonder how many calculations are done client side and then sent up to the server when they should be done server side.  If turning off V-sync gives you speed boosts, that means the server is trusting movement calculations from the client and not double checking them.

Cheating is going to be hilariously common.

Sometimes I wish it was possible to force someone to tell the truth somehow, because I'd really love to know what they were thinking. Did they somehow not know about this (despite it being a known bug in the engine for 10+ years), or did they know about it but somehow expect that nobody anywhere would bother trying to edit the .ini file to remove the cap? Or do they just care so little about the game they are just trying to shovel it out the door with as little work as possible?

Arguably the third one is the least stupid, but that means they are throwing the fallout IP and their own company reputation under a bus for.... what? a cheap money grab trying to get some of that GTA5 microtransaction money?
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Telgin

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #82 on: October 31, 2018, 12:56:04 pm »

I'm probably biased since I program for a living, but this stinks heavily of someone high up in the company delivering the project to the developers, telling them when it has to be done and not listening when they're told that it's impractical to do it well.

Honestly, if I were a programmer I'd be terrified enough at the thought of adding multiplayer to a single player game engine, much less one that's had a decade of "enhancements" tacked on top of it to the point that it's become a Frankenstein's monster of features.  Short of adding multithreading, it's probably the most difficult feature you can add on to an existing game engine.  There are so many things that have to be done differently and more more carefully when multiplayer is involved.
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nenjin

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #83 on: October 31, 2018, 01:06:37 pm »

As was said in the Reddit thread, consoles don't have these kinds of vulnerabilities because users don't have the access. This probably came up in their development meetings and the answer was "We don't care."
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JimboM12

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #84 on: October 31, 2018, 01:47:50 pm »

As was said in the Reddit thread, consoles don't have these kinds of vulnerabilities because users don't have the access. This probably came up in their development meetings and the answer was "We don't care."

"We can fix that in post-release; we'll release a DLC to fix this. I mean, the PC market buys mods, our findings say that they will buy fixes too." "THATS ABSOLUTELY GENIUS, TODD!"

fuck it; it just works.

sorry, that was venomous.
my feelings are mixed: beth makes good singleplayer games. is Fallout 4 a good fallout game? no, in terms of story/lore New Vegas was much better. is Fallout 4 a good game in general? yes, i believe so. after modding, of course. they provided an excellent sandbox for us to play in and edit to our desires. this is what they should focus on, strong bases with actual gameplay/story expansions.
instead they add in an entire online mod marketplace and multiple small patches that break mods for the sake of keeping their inhouse mod architecture updated, forcing outside modders to scramble to update after each mini-update. i personally stopped updating fallout 4 after the last one so my mods wouldn't keep breaking the script extender.

but multiplayer? i don't see it as anything but a experiment to get in on the battle royale/survival sandbox bubble. not that is a bad thing but its never been a beth thing and it just feels like the same kind of decision making that went into paid mods.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 01:59:59 pm by JimboM12 »
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #85 on: October 31, 2018, 08:39:30 pm »

So, did anyone here hear about the 'thesda client straight up deleting the preloaded files (50GB of data) for some PC users?

tbf, they did extend the Thursday beta period to nine hours in response, but that is a fucking massive problem for their exclusive client to have.

Disclaimer: I have not purchased, will not purchase, and will never for any reason suggest anyone purchase Fallout 76.  To those that have or will, I hope you have fun, but this is sounding more and more like a shitshow that can only end in a dumpsterfire.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 08:42:16 pm by NullForceOmega »
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Slax

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2018, 01:19:27 am »

There's going against the grain and then there's this.

This is such a bad idea. Holy crap. Just 110% wrong. Breaking all of the bad practice records. But, they'll get away with it. It's all part of the Bethesda experience! You love it!

Writing an origin story is hard. Let's just put ALL of the players in a big pile and let them figure it out. What do you mean the engine can't handle it? We've been rewriting that thing for close to 20 years now. Keep at it! We'll make it work. Well, good enough anyway. You know how we do. Oh, and strip all of the NPCs out too. No story, no anything. Just mayhem! And GUNS! That's what Fallout's about, right? Right. It is now.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 01:31:50 am by Slax »
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chevil

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #87 on: November 01, 2018, 04:43:17 am »

The moment I heard that 76 is online multiplayer I assumed that this was just a quick cash grab attempt. The more I see of Fallout 76 more I know it is just a quick cash grab attempt.
There are better survival multiplayer games available on Steam.
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Teneb

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2018, 08:38:13 am »

The worst part is that it's actually a nice idea that could work.

But it doesn't.

Bethesda may not be actively malicious like EA or Actiblizzard, but holy shit they are dumb.
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Arbinire

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Re: Fallout 76
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2018, 09:22:36 am »

So, did anyone here hear about the 'thesda client straight up deleting the preloaded files (50GB of data) for some PC users?

tbf, they did extend the Thursday beta period to nine hours in response, but that is a fucking massive problem for their exclusive client to have.

Disclaimer: I have not purchased, will not purchase, and will never for any reason suggest anyone purchase Fallout 76.  To those that have or will, I hope you have fun, but this is sounding more and more like a shitshow that can only end in a dumpsterfire.

Yeah, I was one of those people and wasn't too happy about it. I only got in with 10 minutes left and rushed a character creation that looks roughly like how I wanted but needs some editing, and I didn't make it out of the vault before the servers came down.

That said though, I got a feeling that it was exactly part of their testing to get a rough idea on how much data they'll need to purchase from Amazon(that's who is hosting their servers) during launch and updates since their launcher isn't P2P.  Gonna dig into it today though and get as much of the 9 hours done as I can.  I am wondering though really what they're hoping to accomplish with segmented beta windows 2 weeks before launch besides just stress testing because there's not enough time to actually fix any gameplay bugs before Nov 14th
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