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Author Topic: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+  (Read 53395 times)

Leonidas

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2018, 12:48:19 am »

The stress problem I had in 44.10 was that certain dwarves were incapable of lowering their stress. They ratcheted up and up, no matter what. Is that still happening in 44.11?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2018, 02:47:46 am »

The stress problem I had in 44.10 was that certain dwarves were incapable of lowering their stress. They ratcheted up and up, no matter what. Is that still happening in 44.11?
Play it and find out. Even in 44.10 stress was actually reducing with the usual 'cried on the mayor' and 'blissful at a temple' remedies. The issue was that long term memories of trauma came back so frequently and with such impact that it didn't matter.

Now long term memories aren't as traumatic (although they will twist a dwarves personality, which is pretty fun) and one category won't completely fill a dorfs mind.

Anecdotal evidence is that some dorfs get stressed, some don't and that it's nothing like 44.10. That's a massive improvement over both 44.09 (no stress) and 44.10 (lots of stress). That's the best you're going to get until someone decides to spend hours with both versions side by side looking at numbers extracted with some util to determine scientifically what's going on.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2018, 02:53:51 am »

On the same note, are there any particularly worrysome bugs in the current version that have come up?
:
Some of the personality quirks are a bit unbalanced, but kind of funny "I was rained on, I now shun the company of others!".
:
Perfectly understandable. Just imagine: The hair plastered to the skull, and the clothes clinging to the body like a wet towel while dripping water, and everyone saw it and immediately realized I'd been on the accursed surface. After such a social disgrace it's impossible to meet the judgement apparent in the eyes of others!
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2018, 03:34:03 am »

On the same note, are there any particularly worrysome bugs in the current version that have come up?
:
Some of the personality quirks are a bit unbalanced, but kind of funny "I was rained on, I now shun the company of others!".
:
Perfectly understandable. Just imagine: The hair plastered to the skull, and the clothes clinging to the body like a wet towel while dripping water, and everyone saw it and immediately realized I'd been on the accursed surface. After such a social disgrace it's impossible to meet the judgement apparent in the eyes of others!
Ha, perfectly relatable.  :)
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ChangelingVenom

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2018, 03:18:25 pm »

I've had many tantrums and only one berzerk, but all of those folk were the "don't care about self-control" and nobles. I made everyone a Necromancer, too; so many don't get the food/drink thought buffs.
Depression happens often, but that is my fault because I have constant seiges and dead bodies around and I made a hammer Lord my hammerer causing more dead bodies and low happiness. However, I finally finished a large library and a tavern so I get many thought buffs through that.
My goal is to surround everyone in death until they get used to it.
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Leonidas

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2018, 03:41:00 pm »

I miss "took joy in slaughter."
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2018, 05:52:02 pm »

I miss "took joy in slaughter."
Should still be possible with the right kind of personality. I have folk getting 'grim satisfaction' from killing stuff and 'exhilaration on being attacked' which is nearly there.
Not everyone is horror, horror, fear, flee, stress, insanity, death...
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2018, 08:39:54 pm »

So, I've been following a troublesome dorf who picked up 'long term stress' pretty quickly (has the warning sign, 'doesn't handle stress well' in his thoughts). He's father of 10 children and is missing most of them as they aren't here (mum is handling this much better). Getting caught in the rain a few times pushed him towards the long term stress status.

He's now relieved of all duties except engraving (He needs creativity) and he recently had an 11th child. It's been over a year, luckily he didn't notice the ambush we had recently.

Now he's no longer stressed. He keeps remembering becoming a new parent, his experience in the rain has altered his personality a little (gained an obsession with order) and I'm about ready to put him back to work (not as a herbalist though, something indoors).

None of this required Therapist, or excessive micro. I acted once I spotted a red arrow, easily seen in vanilla, checked up on him once in a while, and he's now better.

That to me seems like 'stress working better'. More or less.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2018, 03:24:36 am »

I haven't had a siege or serious fight in v0.44.11, so can't tell, but I'm asking.

In v0.44.10 there are two separate issues: (1) dwarves who get stressed no matter what, and (2) problems with handling bodies (and I don't even mean remains, just bodies are enough) and witnessing death (including from old age). The first problem I could live with, if it touches only a small percentage of my dwarves. The second is the one really breaking the game, because it applies to almost everyone, and it forces me to use cage traps and other contraptions, or DFHack's autodump.

So I'm asking about this second problem: can they see or carry the bodies of drown goblins or hacked kobolds without much repercussion, or should I expect a fortress wide depression?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2018, 04:17:01 am »

I haven't had a siege or serious fight in v0.44.11, so can't tell, but I'm asking.

In v0.44.10 there are two separate issues: (1) dwarves who get stressed no matter what, and (2) problems with handling bodies (and I don't even mean remains, just bodies are enough) and witnessing death (including from old age). The first problem I could live with, if it touches only a small percentage of my dwarves. The second is the one really breaking the game, because it applies to almost everyone, and it forces me to use cage traps and other contraptions, or DFHack's autodump.

So I'm asking about this second problem: can they see or carry the bodies of drown goblins or hacked kobolds without much repercussion, or should I expect a fortress wide depression?
The fix for reducing the stress of handling bodies appears to have reduced the stress of handling bodies, yes. How much, will require more evidence (so, actually play the game, find out and tell people).

Visibly, people are more 'uneasy' about seeing strangers' bodies than 'horrified' constantly. That probably helps. Then the changes to long term memories should keep things from overwhelming everyone for a while. Stress is reducing, with just a little care, from what I can see.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 04:22:56 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2018, 05:11:47 am »

I haven't had a siege or serious fight in v0.44.11, so can't tell, but I'm asking.

In v0.44.10 there are two separate issues: (1) dwarves who get stressed no matter what, and (2) problems with handling bodies (and I don't even mean remains, just bodies are enough) and witnessing death (including from old age). The first problem I could live with, if it touches only a small percentage of my dwarves. The second is the one really breaking the game, because it applies to almost everyone, and it forces me to use cage traps and other contraptions, or DFHack's autodump.

So I'm asking about this second problem: can they see or carry the bodies of drown goblins or hacked kobolds without much repercussion, or should I expect a fortress wide depression?
The fix for reducing the stress of handling bodies appears to have reduced the stress of handling bodies, yes. How much, will require more evidence (so, actually play the game, find out and tell people).

Visibly, people are more 'uneasy' about seeing strangers' bodies than 'horrified' constantly. That probably helps. Then the changes to long term memories should keep things from overwhelming everyone for a while. Stress is reducing, with just a little care, from what I can see.

My gobbos and necros stopped attacking after update to v0.44.11, which is certainly a coincidence, but doesn't help with testing stress and my problem #2.

However, the problem #1 seems to exist still, and maybe it's even worse (but can't be sure yet). I have to nickname more and more dwarves "emos".
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2018, 05:28:27 am »

As I mentioned a few posts above. I'm dealing with a fragile emo dorf right now. He got long-term stress, then he was cured with a bit of love and attention. 44.10 he'd constantly remember the bad stuff and any care would be cancelled almost immediately. He'll break again pretty quickly, sure, but I can always send him for a peaceful life in the hillocks when I get tired of him.
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Radipon

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2018, 05:46:33 am »

I've had all kinds of animal corpses lingering around the main thoroughfares for several years that no one wants to haul away and no one has gone into depression over it. The main QoL input is food and drink variety and little else.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 05:49:25 am by Radipon »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2018, 05:53:36 am »

I've had all kinds of animal corpses lingering around the main thoroughfares for several years that no one wants to haul away and no one has gone into depression over it. The main QoL input is food and drink variety and little else.
Animals were never really a big problem. It's sapients who were freaking everyone out.

I've just cleared out a big haul of elf parts from my front entrance without any damage control (besides hiding the corpses at the bottom of a deep pit). People seem to be doing OK. One child has gotten pretty stressed about the whole thing and is tantrumming, but there's only so much you can do for children.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Can anyone confirm or otherwise report on the stress fixes in 44.11?
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2018, 06:37:55 am »

One child has gotten pretty stressed about the whole thing and is tantrumming, but there's only so much you can do for children.

That's interesting though - children in my fort were doing very well, despite seeing corpses from time to time, even in v0.44.10. They were and are generally happy, with stress value much negative (toys are quite powerful). Maybe this child is one of future adult "emos".
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