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Author Topic: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+  (Read 67434 times)

Adequate Swimmer

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #480 on: August 12, 2019, 03:16:11 am »

Also, if you're exceptionally worried about stress you can take the modding approach and change dwarves' [STRESS_VULNERABILITY] trait.
I'm not having bad thought about stress per se, it's just that i don't want to restart the game every so often because of something i can't prevent or fix.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #481 on: August 12, 2019, 07:41:31 am »

As far as I've seen, you have to shift the view from "if I can't save them all I've failed" to "you have to accept some losses, as long as the whole continues to work". Thus, exile or unfortunate accidents for those who can't be saved (avoid killing them directly), and take some care with exposing the dorfs to stress (which further penalizes play styles where you engage in direct confrontation with the enemies, unfortunately). Also, if you don't want to restart every so often you should never use the raiding functionality.
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zennyrpg

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #482 on: August 14, 2019, 12:38:19 am »

I tried playing humans with the "All Races Playable" mod so as to avoid rain related personality disorders when building above ground.  Some of my humans had the description: "She likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather."  None of these humans have had rain related personality changes in 5 years.

However, a significant number of my humans do not have that in their description.  Those humans have been getting various personality changes.  Its a bit disappointing, since they are humans and are meant to live in villages.  I can't really prevent them getting rained on without moving them underground.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #483 on: August 14, 2019, 02:02:39 am »

Well. DF is currently DWARF Fortress, and mods/raw hacks to make other races playable have to butt heads against that limitation. Comments/complaints about mods are better placed in their respective mod threads, though.

DF is intended to get a broader range of playable races, but it's still a way off.
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pamelrabo

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #484 on: August 14, 2019, 07:51:31 am »

Annoying as it might look from an overviewer / almighty / omniscient player, just think of a small villagr of 200-200something people.

There's always somebody angry, somebody depressed, somebody who is a troublemaker, someone cheerful...

Of course, stress needs balancing and all that, but you must accept you can't have everybody happy.

Some time ago I read the story of the first Spanish attempts to settlements in America, early 1500. Hunger, scarcity, disease, rain, fights, murders, executions... Many of them just went insane.

So thinking about it, melancholy and insanity and depression are not out of place when you live in a hellhole in the jungle with constant rains.

(But yeah, it needs tweaking)
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zennyrpg

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #485 on: August 14, 2019, 09:19:44 am »

Well. DF is currently DWARF Fortress, and mods/raw hacks to make other races playable have to butt heads against that limitation. Comments/complaints about mods are better placed in their respective mod threads, though.

Agree, I shouldn't have framed it in relation to my disappointment with the mod.  I added it as an insight into how stress works (since the mod is basically vanilla).  Maybe everyone already knew that personality blurb prevented rain stress?  I thought it was interesting that rain stress still effects humans.  You could simulate the same thing by making a dwarf fort accept a bunch of human petitioners and using those humans as your "outdoors crew".  However, this alone is not enough since some humans still would be vastly happier underground away from the rain.

There's always somebody angry, somebody depressed, somebody who is a troublemaker, someone cheerful...

Of course, stress needs balancing and all that, but you must accept you can't have everybody happy.
I don't want everyone happy-- I don't want people to get "in a constant state of internal rage" due to being exposed to rain.  Once someone gets a disorder like this, their stress is likely to build and they will try to murder someone.  As you say, it needs tweaking. 
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Sver

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #486 on: August 14, 2019, 10:10:44 am »

I tried playing humans with the "All Races Playable" mod so as to avoid rain related personality disorders when building above ground.  Some of my humans had the description: "She likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather."  None of these humans have had rain related personality changes in 5 years.

However, a significant number of my humans do not have that in their description.  Those humans have been getting various personality changes.  Its a bit disappointing, since they are humans and are meant to live in villages.  I can't really prevent them getting rained on without moving them underground.

It's a hardcoded trait that is given to the starting 7 to make the first few minutes of embark less punishing. However, high personal value of NATURE also seems to prevent bad thoughts from rain.
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scourge728

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #487 on: August 14, 2019, 10:25:56 am »

Think about it, you live above ground (I assume) and you probably don't like getting drenched while working

zennyrpg

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #488 on: August 14, 2019, 11:10:14 am »

Think about it, you live above ground (I assume) and you probably don't like getting drenched while working
Sure.  But I go autonomously go inside when its raining.  There's no way to make dwarves do this on their own.  Maybe have a civilian alert every time it rains?  Turn off all outdoor labors when it rains?  Even then, being rained on for a very short time still generates the bad thought (so i assume also the personality disorders that do with it)-- so even running for cover wouldn't avoid it.

I end up getting rained on all the time where I live.  Commuting in the rain (or in df walking from building to building) is different than working all day in the rain.  Maybe differentiate "caught" in the rain vs "was drenched" in the rain where the later happens if you spend more than X amount of time in the rain.  (I'm imaging an outdoor workshop where some poor drenched dwarf is laboring all day in the rain, yeah I agree that's bad)

Annoyed at being rained on == great
Annoyed was rained on a year later == ok
In a constant state of rage due to being rained on == rain too op
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anewaname

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #489 on: August 14, 2019, 12:44:21 pm »

...
Sure.  But I go autonomously go inside when its raining.  There's no way to make dwarves do this on their own.  Maybe have a civilian alert every time it rains?
Needs a new type of pathing... one for "rain avoidance". It would be like "walk" pathing, but would exclude "Outside Light Aboveground" tiles while it is raining.

So each time it stops or starts raining, the available set of tiles for "rain avoidance" pathing type changes, and "rain avoidance" dwarfs will refuse to go into the rain until it stops or until the dwarf is starving (this is like the current situation with dwarfs stuck in a tree or on a wall, and they refuse to use Climb pathing to get out of the tree until they are starving). If the dwarf was already in the rain, they will use Walk Pathing (or even Climb pathing) to get out of it (just as dwarfs in water switch to Swimming mode until they are out of the water).

So, this would not be like a burrow, where the player has anything to say about what happens. The dwarf says "not going in the rain, no no no" and that is it.

Now you will have some dwarfs acting like some RL people do when a downpour starts... they wait in shelter until the rain stops or until their needs overwhelm their dislike of the rain. You may even see one dwarf walk through the rain to bring food or water to another dwarf, because one was willing to walk through the rain and the other was not.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 01:16:58 pm by anewaname »
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pamelrabo

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #490 on: August 14, 2019, 02:33:22 pm »

That sounds too good and sensible.

Is it even possible ?
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Atarlost

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #491 on: August 14, 2019, 09:38:33 pm »

Should any race that travels overland have an extreme aversion to weather?  If your starting seven began the game on the first cavern layer and immigrants and dwarven merchants came through the caverns it would be different, but they all travel overland.  It doesn't really make sense for dwarves to suffer complete breakdowns over rain in forts given how they behave outside forts. 
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Superdorf

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #492 on: August 14, 2019, 10:49:29 pm »

Maybe you could have rain-rage be a side effect of cave adaptation. Dwarf-merchants don't go vomiting everywhere either, after all...
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #493 on: August 14, 2019, 11:22:52 pm »

It's a bug. Some stressers are stacking when they shouldn't. Rain isn't meant to drive dwarves insane. Stress system is currently not working as intended.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 12:13:36 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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Loci

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Re: Stress & Pysche: 44.11+
« Reply #494 on: August 14, 2019, 11:38:03 pm »

I can't really prevent them getting rained on without moving them underground.

Sure you can. You could disable weather in d_init, embark in a biome with extremely rare or non-existent rain, build roofs, or use burrows to constrain most of your population to weather-proof tiles. I've successfully used the latter three in several above-ground forts in v0.44.12.

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