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Author Topic: Staves as weapons?  (Read 3520 times)

Miles_Umbrae

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2018, 12:18:32 pm »

I'm not sure that staves should regularly beat out spears
The staff is larger and 2handed, the spear is smaller and one handed, if the spear user has a shield, they get the advantage.

There are cultural differences when it comes to what is colloquially referred to as a 'spear when it comes to length.
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Pwned dwarf

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2018, 01:05:06 pm »

I'm not sure that staves should regularly beat out spears
The staff is larger and 2handed, the spear is smaller and one handed, if the spear user has a shield, they get the advantage.

There are cultural differences when it comes to what is colloquially referred to as a 'spear when it comes to length.
The spears in df are smaller, because they are meant to be wielded with one hand.
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Miles_Umbrae

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2018, 05:11:39 pm »

I'm not sure that staves should regularly beat out spears
The staff is larger and 2handed, the spear is smaller and one handed, if the spear user has a shield, they get the advantage.

There are cultural differences when it comes to what is colloquially referred to as a 'spear when it comes to length.
The spears in df are smaller, because they are meant to be wielded with one hand.
Was referring to the possibility to misunderstand what is specified as a spear due to those differences.
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EpicMadness

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2018, 08:45:18 pm »

no, i think it should be clearly differentiated in DF that spears are short one-handed weapons.
if you're going to mention any long two-handed spears then call them pikes.
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2018, 02:36:18 am »

Given that
a) spears come in different sizes,
b) their users come in different sizes, and
c) everybody is aware of both a) and b),
then both the dwarves and the players should know that not all users are going to be able to handle all spears equally well. A short and scrawny dwarf might need both hands to use the exact same weapon that a tall human confidently handles with one. There were broad-bladed spears, designed to inflict a larger wound on an unarmored target. There were armor-piercing spears, boar-spears, fishing spears, and javelins. The Romans used the pilum, a javelin with a sharp steel head but a weak iron shank that bent upon impact--making the weapon useless for throwing back at the Romans. Mounted humans might use lances. Pikes could be a multi-tile weapon, giving them a unique property. There is a vast wealth of potential diversity, and I for one would hate to see it all vanish under the one word, "spear".

Similarly, the staff has multiple variants--the Chinese alone have 3 principal sizes of staff, each in a certain proportion to the height of the user. Again, a dwarf and a human would have different definitions, and different uses, for the exact same weapon. Who's to say where a baton becomes a cane becomes a quarterstaff becomes a long staff? It's all relative. Placeholders are all right for now, but as I said, I'm for variation.
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Dwarf Fortress -- kind of like Minecraft, but for people who hate themselves.

EpicMadness

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2018, 03:09:16 am »

its a blanket term for weapons that falls under certain specifications, just like how pikes are also considered as a really long spear.
claymores and rapiers for example also falls under the blanket term "sword" despite the huge disparity in actual specifications.

edit: speaking of rapiers, its a lot closer to being a short spear in terms of usage case.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 03:34:16 am by EpicMadness »
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Starver

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2018, 05:36:53 am »

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Rowanas

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2018, 07:09:23 am »

its a blanket term for weapons that falls under certain specifications, just like how pikes are also considered as a really long spear.
claymores and rapiers for example also falls under the blanket term "sword" despite the huge disparity in actual specifications.

edit: speaking of rapiers, its a lot closer to being a short spear in terms of usage case.

You can't halfsword with a rapier, to my knowledge. That would make greatswords more like spears in usage when halfswording.
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

EpicMadness

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2018, 09:35:50 am »

its a blanket term for weapons that falls under certain specifications, just like how pikes are also considered as a really long spear.
claymores and rapiers for example also falls under the blanket term "sword" despite the huge disparity in actual specifications.

edit: speaking of rapiers, its a lot closer to being a short spear in terms of usage case.

You can't halfsword with a rapier, to my knowledge. That would make greatswords more like spears in usage when halfswording.
theoretically its possible with a lengthened blade.
however at this point it'll be an estoc instead of a rapier.

i think a Zweihänder (two-hander) would fit that purpose better than a greatsword.
not only is a Zweihänder massive with a lengthened handle, it occasionally has a ricasso, making it essentially a pseudo-polearm.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 02:11:18 pm by EpicMadness »
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Cathar

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2018, 11:14:13 am »

Quote from: google
stave
steɪv/
noun
noun: staff

    1.
    a vertical wooden post or plank in a building or other structure.
        any of the lengths of wood fixed side by side to make a barrel, bucket, or other container.
        a strong wooden stick or iron pole used as a weapon.

You're thinking about quarterstaves, which are specific weapons. What you should ask for, imho, are wooden training pikes. They are necessary and would fit the role without compromizing the DF trend of using general coathanger weapons instead of specific historical denominations.

Rowanas

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2018, 04:27:26 am »

its a blanket term for weapons that falls under certain specifications, just like how pikes are also considered as a really long spear.
claymores and rapiers for example also falls under the blanket term "sword" despite the huge disparity in actual specifications.

edit: speaking of rapiers, its a lot closer to being a short spear in terms of usage case.

You can't halfsword with a rapier, to my knowledge. That would make greatswords more like spears in usage when halfswording.
theoretically its possible with a lengthened blade.
however at this point it'll be an estoc instead of a rapier.

i think a Zweihänder (two-hander) would fit that purpose better than a greatsword.
not only is a Zweihänder massive with a lengthened handle, it occasionally has a ricasso, making it essentially a pseudo-polearm.

My apologies, I was using greatsword as a catch-all for 6 ft+ two handed swords. The classical zweihander with ricasso (and... damnit, what's the blunted section called, I forget) is perfect, yes.
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I agree with Urist. Steampunk is like Darth Vader winning Holland's Next Top Model. It would be awesome but not something I'd like in this game.
Unfortunately dying involves the amputation of the entire body from the dwarf.

Miles_Umbrae

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2018, 07:56:45 pm »

*sits back and enjoy watching the weapons-nerds geek out as predicted* 8)
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Starver

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2018, 10:38:59 pm »

*sits back and enjoy watching the weapons-nerds geek out as predicted* 8)
*wouldn't touch that argument with a 10ft-pole - I'd really need an 11'4" one...*
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Miles_Umbrae

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Re: Staves as weapons?
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2018, 07:11:29 pm »

*sits back and enjoy watching the weapons-nerds geek out as predicted* 8)
*wouldn't touch that argument with a 10ft-pole - I'd really need an 11'4" one...*
*roles over laughing*
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