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Author Topic: Playing as existing historical characters.  (Read 3785 times)

KittyTac

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2018, 05:14:06 am »

A lot of modern roguelikes include a "casual mode" for those who do not want permadeath (and sometimes it is on by default) and are still considered roguelikes. So there's a flaw in your argument.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2018, 05:29:06 am »

A lot of modern roguelikes include a "casual mode" for those who do not want permadeath (and sometimes it is on by default) and are still considered roguelikes. So there's a flaw in your argument.

DF is not one of those games, so not a flaw.
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KittyTac

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2018, 05:30:30 am »

A lot of modern roguelikes include a "casual mode" for those who do not want permadeath (and sometimes it is on by default) and are still considered roguelikes. So there's a flaw in your argument.

DF is not one of those games, so not a flaw.
However, we could include an optional casual mode without qualms, so it is still a flaw.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2018, 05:33:15 am »

However, we could include an optional casual mode without qualms, so it is still a flaw.

I already told everyone they could mod the values down to 0.  So why do people insist on demanding an ini setting when it is redundant?
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KittyTac

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2018, 06:03:55 am »

However, we could include an optional casual mode without qualms, so it is still a flaw.

I already told everyone they could mod the values down to 0.  So why do people insist on demanding an ini setting when it is redundant?
What if you have 100 modded (or mythgen procedural) civs with 40 positions each, all strewn across multiple files? A redundant ini setting would be a good idea if you want ALL positions available to you, and you could mod some positions down to 0 if you want, for example, the sheriff to be playable, but not other positions. Kind of like you can either turn off invaders in the ini files or you can remove [SIEGER] and [AMBUSHER] from goblins and other civs for the same effect.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2018, 02:38:30 pm »

There should be an ini setting, and it should default to off, because most DF players don't need or want to be "protected from themselves".
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KittyTac

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2018, 09:18:09 pm »

There should be an ini setting, and it should default to off, because most DF players don't need or want to be "protected from themselves".
Exactly.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2018, 07:44:16 am »

What if you have 100 modded (or mythgen procedural) civs with 40 positions each, all strewn across multiple files? A redundant ini setting would be a good idea if you want ALL positions available to you, and you could mod some positions down to 0 if you want, for example, the sheriff to be playable, but not other positions. Kind of like you can either turn off invaders in the ini files or you can remove [SIEGER] and [AMBUSHER] from goblins and other civs for the same effect.

Easy, we add a base world-gen setting for procedurally generated positions.  If you want all your generated positions to be free, you would set that world-gen value to 0. 

There should be an ini setting, and it should default to off, because most DF players don't need or want to be "protected from themselves".

A good number of player won't even know there is an ini setting.
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KittyTac

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2018, 07:46:17 am »

There should be an ini setting, and it should default to off, because most DF players don't need or want to be "protected from themselves".

A good number of player won't even know there is an ini setting.
And? They do not need nor want to be protected from themselves.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2018, 08:05:23 am »

And? They do not need nor want to be protected from themselves.

Every game does that all the time.  That is why every game dev does not simply give the player a list of cheat codes rather than actual controls.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2018, 08:11:00 am »

It's not about "protecting players from themselves", it's about making it clear what the game is supposed to play like.  Cheating is easy enough but if there are no rules built into the game then it will be impossible to determine what is cheating.

And for those who say "DF is a simulation and not a game" then I have to ask: why is there no "quit without saving" button?

KittyTac

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2018, 09:13:31 am »

It's not about "protecting players from themselves", it's about making it clear what the game is supposed to play like.  Cheating is easy enough but if there are no rules built into the game then it will be impossible to determine what is cheating.

And for those who say "DF is a simulation and not a game" then I have to ask: why is there no "quit without saving" button?
DF is supposed to be a game you can play in any way you want. Why not?
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2018, 05:51:38 am »

DF is supposed to be a game you can play in any way you want. Why not?

Being able to play the game however we want is generally not held to include adding in invincible abilities that cost nothing. 
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2018, 07:23:24 am »

DF is supposed to be a game you can play in any way you want. Why not?

Being able to play the game however we want is generally not held to include adding in invincible abilities that cost nothing.
Retire, wait two weeks, kill-self, wait two weeks, unretire, fix up damage caused by autonomous control (if your fortress isn't dead). It's hardly "invincible abilities". It's about the level of control  (and hassle) that other sandbox games such as Crusader Kings II give you unless you turn on the optional limits such as Ironman.

The idea of various forms of limitation on play is fine. It's your insistence that without limiting play by default the game is broken which some don't agree with and probably never will no matter how back and forth this discussion goes on.
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KittyTac

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Re: Playing as existing historical characters.
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2018, 08:32:32 am »

DF is supposed to be a game you can play in any way you want. Why not?

Being able to play the game however we want is generally not held to include adding in invincible abilities that cost nothing.
Retire, wait two weeks, kill-self, wait two weeks, unretire, fix up damage caused by autonomous control (if your fortress isn't dead). It's hardly "invincible abilities". It's about the level of control  (and hassle) that other sandbox games such as Crusader Kings II give you unless you turn on the optional limits such as Ironman.

The idea of various forms of limitation on play is fine. It's your insistence that without limiting play by default the game is broken which some don't agree with and probably never will no matter how back and forth this discussion goes on.
Basically my logic.
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