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Author Topic: Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation  (Read 321 times)

Ariosto

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Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation
« on: August 10, 2018, 09:30:13 am »

Knowing how serious Cave Adaptation can adversely affect a military force, I was curious if there was a way where I could set up barracks and archery ranges with direct access to sunlight, but where in the case of an attack or siege I could still close up the fort, especially in the case of aerial foes. The concept I happened upon was the idea of retractable bridges that would act as roofs, which would be raised most times. Before planning this out and running with it however, I wanted to know if anyone experimented with anything similar and if it actually works; will a raised bridge actually allow light through, or will the squares that it normally covers still count as being indoor light?
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 11:00:18 am »

You should read the post or article about the method, and to exactly as advised, because it is quirky. But yes, it works.

One way to do it:
1. Reserve place for barracks deep enough so the bridge (retractable) can be built 2 z-levels or more above it (this is to prevent some bugs). Alternatively build walls so high. Dig what's needed, but don't build the archery targets or floors yet.

2. Build the bridge above, as said. Link it to the lever, and open. The space below (future barracks) will be still inside.

3. Build all over the barracks what you want - archery targets, weapon racks, pumps, whatever. Build either floors or dirt roads over unused space. The space will turn to outside (assuming the bridge is still open, i.e. retracted, before constructions are finished), which will heal cave adaptation after some months (but you will have to clean the vomit yourself).

4. Close the bridge if you want. Usually the space will remain outside, but after some time it may turn to inside. It will also turn to inside in tiles you build/rebuild. In such case you need to open the bridge first and then rebuild the affected tiles, for instance by building a dirt road.

Because of point 4, it is best to keep the bridge open, and close it only if there is a danger (flying foes or climbers, though there are protection methods against climbers).
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Leonidas

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Re: Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 12:43:15 pm »

You can use Therapist to check cave adaptation. Go to Windows->Docks->Grid Views to create a custom view, and you can add cave adaptation as a column.
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Ariosto

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Re: Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 01:36:32 pm »

You should read the post or article about the method, and to exactly as advised, because it is quirky. But yes, it works.

One way to do it:
1. Reserve place for barracks deep enough so the bridge (retractable) can be built 2 z-levels or more above it (this is to prevent some bugs). Alternatively build walls so high. Dig what's needed, but don't build the archery targets or floors yet.

2. Build the bridge above, as said. Link it to the lever, and open. The space below (future barracks) will be still inside.

3. Build all over the barracks what you want - archery targets, weapon racks, pumps, whatever. Build either floors or dirt roads over unused space. The space will turn to outside (assuming the bridge is still open, i.e. retracted, before constructions are finished), which will heal cave adaptation after some months (but you will have to clean the vomit yourself).

4. Close the bridge if you want. Usually the space will remain outside, but after some time it may turn to inside. It will also turn to inside in tiles you build/rebuild. In such case you need to open the bridge first and then rebuild the affected tiles, for instance by building a dirt road.

Because of point 4, it is best to keep the bridge open, and close it only if there is a danger (flying foes or climbers, though there are protection methods against climbers).
If that is the case, I'm not sure if I want to bother with the bridges then as I'm liable to forget if the tiles have switched and need to be reconstructed, and then will send my Hammerers out, wondering why they're vomiting.

Should it ever be fixed though, I'll definitely take advantage of this. Thanks.
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Afghani84

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Re: Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 03:55:02 am »

Glad I used the search function. I had the exact same question  ;D

Let's say I want to build a tower and use the uppermost floor as my tavern/dining hall. That would (hopefully) guarantee that everyone is spending enough time outside to avoid cave adaptation.
Now I don't quite get how the change from outside to inside with the bridge solution works. So when I build the bridge it is "inside" and when I open it, the area slowly turns into "outside"? Or do I have to remove and rebuild floors every time I close the bridge to renew the "outside" tag? If that's the case, this option would be too much trouble imo...

How are other people solving their dwarves' adaptation issues?
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Luriant

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Re: Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 07:00:47 am »

I only saw a older wiki from 40d:Bridge.
"If a bridge is built outside over a channel, anything under the bridge counts as inside for the purpose of preventing cave adaptation (but not for the "stay inside" order), regardless of whether or not the bridge is actually covering the area. "

I don't know the actual behavior, but is suppose.

1: Channel a hole, all tiles change to "Outside Light Aboveground" and reduce Cave adaption
2: Build a bridge, the tiles are "Inside Light Aboveground", Cave adaption don't increase or reduce.
3: Activate the lever and Raise/Retract the bridge, all tiles are "Inside Light Aboveground, the game don't change.

Attributes in BOLD are permanent.

The only method for prevent cave adaptation is don't build nothing.
OR
Build a umbrella over all the map, making every tile under the structure Inside Light Aboveground. (use inmigrants without cave adaptation to build the umbrella)

I don't have a old fortress with cave adaptation, but we can test making a umbrella with bridges. If Urist McDeep vomit after walking under a retracted/raised bridge, the bridge don't block the OUTSIDE ray.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 09:24:41 am »

Not quite permanent; you can return to subterranean with stockpiles and retire-unretire though Above Ground will forever be Above ground (or maybe until you remove the stockpile and retire-unretire again). As for Inside-Outside, I've tested and added to the wiki the "open, build/dig" note myself. Perhaps it should be on bridge page as well?

@Aghani84: You don't have to rebuild every time you close, but if you leave it closed it will become inside when the game updates the tile columns they're in (such as due building/digging underneath).

If you have soil, a dirt road is ideal for returning to outside.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 09:29:41 am by Fleeting Frames »
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Afghani84

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Re: Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 09:43:55 am »

3: Activate the lever and Raise/Retract the bridge, all tiles are "Inside Light Aboveground, the game don't change.

Attributes in BOLD are permanent.
If that is true it would be a waste of time to build the bridge since I never get the "outside" tag that is required to lower values for cave adaptation...

@Aghani84: You don't have to rebuild every time you close, but if you leave it closed it will become inside when the game updates the tile columns they're in (such as due building/digging underneath).

If you have soil, a dirt road is ideal for returning to outside.
I was planning on using the uppermost floor of a stone tower, so dirt road will not be an option.
All I care about is that once I (re-)open the ceiling by retracting the bridge, i.e. after a prolonged siege, the area will eventually change back to being "outside". If what you write about updates to tile columns also works the other way round (changing inside tiles back to outside tiles after a set time), I don't have a problem with it. If it never reverts to "outside" once being "inside", there is no reason to construct it in the first place...
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 10:15:57 am by Afghani84 »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2018, 11:01:03 am »

Luriant didn't bold the Inside, only Light/Aboveground side. Inside/Outside is what you care about (I know, I got confused too).

Yeah, it works the other way around too.

Afghani84

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Re: Question Regarding Bridges and Cave Adaptation
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2018, 01:27:54 pm »

Luriant didn't bold the Inside, only Light/Aboveground side. Inside/Outside is what you care about (I know, I got confused too).

Yeah, it works the other way around too.
oh, that's true. didn't even spot that  :o
thanks for the advice, guys! it's time to strike the earth  8)
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