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[UristMcVampire]

I went to a dark fortress as a human vampire adventurer. The trolls acted normal for a while... but than they just started killing eachother (and also killing goblins). I'm not asking for how to stop them from doing this, it reduces lag and is funny. I just want to know why they're doing that.

[Dyret]

[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PERSONAL_MATTER] at work, I guess.

[Rumrusher]

combined with them needing to show identification on a constant means members of the civ ends up being flag as neutral which provokes the member of the civ to attack.

[Blastbeard]

I think it has more to do with telling friend from foe than the whole "Murder is A-OK" thing. I say this because I've watched the following scenario play out time and again while sneaking around goblin sites.

Spoiler: Meanwhile, In Goblin Town (click to show/hide)

>Goblin asks Troll to identify itself.
>Troll can't reply because trolls cannot speak.
>Goblin assumes Troll is an enemy because it doesn't identify itself.
>No Quarter combat ensues because goblins must kill enemies and neutrals.
>Goblin cancels Being Alive: Picked fight with creature over four times its size.
>Troll is now an enemy of its own civilization, but still a member of that civilization.
>Troll is now surrounded by enemies
>[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:REQUIRED]
>Rip and Tear
>Random Beak Dog Joins The Fight!
>Troll #2 uses the distraction to run up and punch Troll #1 to death
>Another Goblin asks Troll #2 to identify itself
>Trolls still can't speak you idiot
>tfw

My take is that we're witnessing a loyalty cascade caused by trolls failing to respond to friend-or-foe requests. It's understandably hard to declare allegiances when you can't speak, and that's sort of a big problem. I've started giving trolls the ability to speak and it seems to fix the problem, but it's hard to say for certain when you have to factor in legalized murder and foreign spies who may or may not be getting found out and killed in front of you, all while staying hidden in an entire city of green idiots who want you dead so as not to contaminate test results.

[Mort Stroodle]

I think it has more to do with telling friend from foe than the whole "Murder is A-OK" thing. I say this because I've watched the following scenario play out time and again while sneaking around goblin sites.

Spoiler: Meanwhile, In Goblin Town (click to show/hide)

>Goblin asks Troll to identify itself.
>Troll can't reply because trolls cannot speak.
>Goblin assumes Troll is an enemy because it doesn't identify itself.
>No Quarter combat ensues because goblins must kill enemies and neutrals.
>Goblin cancels Being Alive: Picked fight with creature over four times its size.
>Troll is now an enemy of its own civilization, but still a member of that civilization.
>Troll is now surrounded by enemies
>[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:REQUIRED]
>Rip and Tear
>Random Beak Dog Joins The Fight!
>Troll #2 uses the distraction to run up and punch Troll #1 to death
>Another Goblin asks Troll #2 to identify itself
>Trolls still can't speak you idiot
>tfw

My take is that we're witnessing a loyalty cascade caused by trolls failing to respond to friend-or-foe requests. It's understandably hard to declare allegiances when you can't speak, and that's sort of a big problem. I've started giving trolls the ability to speak and it seems to fix the problem, but it's hard to say for certain when you have to factor in legalized murder and foreign spies who may or may not be getting found out and killed in front of you, all while staying hidden in an entire city of green idiots who want you dead so as not to contaminate test results.

I mean to be fair it sounds like the goblin sites are still less violent and self destructive than the average dwarven fortress these days.

[Blastbeard]

I mean to be fair it sounds like the goblin sites are still less violent and self destructive than the average dwarven fortress these days.

And that's the problem. The fact the troll can't respond makes it a one-sided engagement which will never reach the scale of a dwarven dance party. The troll can't tell people what happened and thereby violently upset others, they must wait for another goblin to happen along and start a fight, and hope someone else sees it. I'm also offended by the lack of magma involved. I mean they could at least throw someone down one of their burial pits, come on.

Spoiler:  UPDATE: DRUNKEN IDIOT FAILS AT MODDING (click to show/hide)

Adding [CAN_SPEAK] to trolls allowed them to speak and behave as intended exactly once. At first they would reply as though the goblin had initiated a normal conversation, and all seemed well. Then they stopped speaking for no obvious reason, and began to emigrate to non-goblin sites. Trolls observed in human cities would path around and cause no trouble until engaged. That is to say if an adventurer got within 3 spaces of one, a fight broke out within its line of sight, or anyone attempted to speak with them, the troll would engage in no quarter combat with everything around it. It's funnier when it happens in human sites because humans carry around kitchen knives for just this sort of occasion. It's funnier still when the troll somehow gets its hands on a knife of its own.
Meanwhile, goblins and elves now refuse to wear clothes. They spawn completely naked and reasonably upset about it. Should you give them something to cover up with, they lose anything not strapped to the upper body the moment you fast travel away. Okay but why tho

[scourge728]

That... shouldn't happen