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[GoblinCookie]

Have to say I LOVE some of the downright hilarious names that the expanded dictionary is generating!

For instance, both a forgotten beast named "Mung Chargedgreen-tree-frog-kitten the Introvert Narwhal People" and a poem called "Masturbate Steady" (which apparently concerns a lover...seems highly fitting) exist in my latest world.

Keep up the good work, Taffer!

[Put on best robot voice] Praise received and understood. 

There are three words for it in this dictionary.  If you go through the language files you could find out more about what gender is on the 'receiving end' of you poem or if refers to both genders.   

[GoblinCookie]

Released a new version of the dictionary.  The general purpose was to update the vanilla dictionary to keep up with the mod version, this took a while because the symbol files are different.  I also found out that green tree frogs were being referred to as green-tree-frog-kittens. 

[Taffer]

Released a new version of the dictionary.  The general purpose was to update the vanilla dictionary to keep up with the mod version, this took a while because the symbol files are different.  I also found out that green tree frogs were being referred to as green-tree-frog-kittens. 

Thank you kindly for the update! Reviewing it, it seems that you've included unmodified vanilla files as well. And it looks like you regenerated every word? I went to see what's new and, well..

[GoblinCookie]

Thank you kindly for the update! Reviewing it, it seems that you've included unmodified vanilla files as well. And it looks like you regenerated every word? I went to see what's new and, well..

The vanilla files being included was an accident.  The words had to be regenerated because new words were added, some that were supposed to be in already.

[GoblinCookie]

I removed the redundant vanilla files from the mod, these were entirely harmless but will matter when new versions of the game are released and some of those files are modified without affecting anything modified by the dictionary.  Re-downloading is not needed.

[Levity]

This is a fantastic mod with one issue I think it is causing. If you create a language from Talvieno's LangCreate for a custom faction you get a bunch of ridiculous names, such as: Swoopobtruded; Mesmerizedextravagances; Asymmetriccistern; and my personal favourite - Multipliedunderclothes.

What I'm assuming is happening is that names in worldgen are trying to be generated from the now-expanded dwarven vocabulary, only to come against my gnomish language which is 7000+ words short. I'm thinking of trying to write a new version of LangCreate myself...

[GoblinCookie]

While working on my other mod, I noticed there were missing plurals that were leading to blank words that were not being translated.

[Taffer]

I've been quietly working on cleaning up the dictionary--I might have to start over with a new update. Thank you!

I think there's probably still too many words, to be honest: too many hyphenated and overly specific words, and I caught some words that don't belong in the time period DF is 'set in' (like bullet, casing, burger, driveway..more examples in my commit). Perhaps the dictionary can be cleaned up? That's more or less what I was doing, but I was working on the finished product and not the setup you have. The expanded dictionary at its best adds tons of great missing, funny, and lewd words that really add to the game: at its worst it can result in hyphenated word salad, and I think more cleaning up would help with that significantly.

There's a reasonable amount of feedback in the last two pages of my mod thread. Your work is appreciated.

EDIT: Rather than word on this independently, would it help if I compiled a list of words that I think deserve culling? Right off the top of my head I think the specific creature names can be dropped. Eg, rather than entries for peach-faced-lovebird, peach-faced-lovebird-man, masked-lovebird, and masked-lovebird-man, I was shortening the list to just 'lovebird'. I think it's a fantastic idea that ends up (IMO) contributing to the word salad criticism. I feel similarly about all of the metals and gems included in the dictionary.

I've lost my most recent work, but this edit comprises much of the work I was doing. Browsing the changes to language_words.txt is probably the most useful. You can see what words I excised there: between that and the feedback here and in my thread, I hope I've provided enough detail to make my critique useful.

If this is too much work I'm happy to take a crack at fixing up the source files myself: I'd just need the same setup you use to be uploaded.

[GoblinCookie]

I've been quietly working on cleaning up the dictionary--I might have to start over with a new update. Thank you!

I think there's probably still too many words, to be honest: too many hyphenated and overly specific words, and I caught some words that don't belong in the time period DF is 'set in' (like bullet, casing, burger, driveway..more examples in my commit). Perhaps the dictionary can be cleaned up? That's more or less what I was doing, but I was working on the finished product and not the setup you have. The expanded dictionary at its best adds tons of great missing, funny, and lewd words that really add to the game: at its worst it can result in hyphenated word salad, and I think more cleaning up would help with that significantly.

There's a reasonable amount of feedback in the last two pages of my mod thread. Your work is appreciated.

EDIT: Rather than word on this independently, would it help if I compiled a list of words that I think deserve culling? Right off the top of my head I think the specific creature names can be dropped. Eg, rather than entries for peach-faced-lovebird, peach-faced-lovebird-man, masked-lovebird, and masked-lovebird-man, I was shortening the list to just 'lovebird'. I think it's a fantastic idea that ends up (IMO) contributing to the word salad criticism. I feel similarly about all of the metals and gems included in the dictionary.

I've lost my most recent work, but this edit comprises much of the work I was doing. Browsing the changes to language_words.txt is probably the most useful. You can see what words I excised there: between that and the feedback here and in my thread, I hope I've provided enough detail to make my critique useful.

If this is too much work I'm happy to take a crack at fixing up the source files myself: I'd just need the same setup you use to be uploaded.

I would appreciate a list of words that you think are out of time period.  A lot of the problem is that some things (guns for instance) are actually in my mod, in real-life, the DF time period but not in present DF.  What I will do is move these words where appropriate into the non-vanilla part of dictionary or just delete them.  I am also interested in removing the overly specific disease words (stuff like mastitis), concepts which are better expressed linguistically by stringing general disease words to a specific body part.  The problem is that languages are not very consistent in real-life, often we use a single word when a string of adjective words would also do; but in other contexts we use a string of adjective words.

I am going to get rid of the specific creature names however.  The reason is that they are not speaking English; there is no logical reason they would have the same specific mixture of specific creature names and adjective string names that we do.  As there is no word in english for masked-lovebird man, we necessarily have long hyphenated names but there is still no reason that a masked-lovebird man would actually be called that in Dwarf Fortress.

We go around calling ourselves human beings, we do not go around calling ourselves australopithecus men or ape men.  Similarly we have crows, ravens and magpies, we do not call them corvid, giant corvid and black-and-white corvid.  If we remove specific creature names we are in the strange position of having to superimpose the arbitrary choices of the English language as to what creatures deserve a specific creature name onto an alien language. 

[Taffer]

Code: [Select]

*** Error(s) finalizing the symbol COLOR
Unrecognized word token: TAUPE_GREY
*** Error(s) finalizing the translation DWARF
Unrecognized word token: TAUPE_GREY
*** Error(s) finalizing the translation ELF
Unrecognized word token: TAUPE_GREY
*** Error(s) finalizing the translation GOBLIN
Unrecognized word token: TAUPE_GREY
*** Error(s) finalizing the translation HUMAN
Unrecognized word token: TAUPE_GREY
Looks like it's TAUPE_GRAY in language_words.txt but TAUPE_GREY in your other files.

I'll have to work on compiling a better list of words (I think) should be removed for you: as mentioned you can see the exact list of words I removed so far by looking at my diff under language_words.txt, but that isn't categorized and is a little tedious probably to review. I also didn't finish. This will take a while.

[GoblinCookie]

Code: [Select]

*** Error(s) finalizing the symbol COLOR
Unrecognized word token: TAUPE_GREY
*** Error(s) finalizing the translation DWARF
Unrecognized word token: TAUPE_GREY
*** Error(s) finalizing the translation ELF
Unrecognized word token: TAUPE_GREY
*** Error(s) finalizing the translation GOBLIN
Unrecognized word token: TAUPE_GREY
*** Error(s) finalizing the translation HUMAN
Unrecognized word token: TAUPE_GREY
Looks like it's TAUPE_GRAY in language_words.txt but TAUPE_GREY in your other files.

I'll have to work on compiling a better list of words (I think) should be removed for you: as mentioned you can see the exact list of words I removed so far by looking at my diff under language_words.txt, but that isn't categorized and is a little tedious probably to review. I also didn't finish. This will take a while.

This must be a dictionary only problem, because I'm not getting any error long along those lines in the mod.  Then again I'm not actually testing this dictionary at all, just ripping it out of the mod and throwing it here minus words for modded things.

I do not understand how any of this works, the red ones are the candidates for removal?

[Taffer]

I do not understand how any of this works, the red ones are the candidates for removal?

Thank you for the quick update! Yes, the red entries are all lines that I deleted. I never finished going through the list, however, and I'm intending on reviewing everything again and presenting some more nicely-formatted lists of words that I think are suspect (and why).

[GoblinCookie]

Thank you for the quick update! Yes, the red entries are all lines that I deleted. I never finished going through the list, however, and I'm intending on reviewing everything again and presenting some more nicely-formatted lists of words that I think are suspect (and why).

So green ones are additions?  Grey ones are Status Quo?

[Taffer]

So green ones are additions?  Grey ones are Status Quo?

Green lines are additions, grey is unchanged/status quo. If a line is changed it'll show both a removed and an added line and it'll highlight exactly what part changed.

[GoblinCookie]

Green lines are additions, grey is unchanged/status quo. If a line is changed it'll show both a removed and an added line and it'll highlight exactly what part changed.

I guess I will leave you to cull the dictionary and then you can report back when you are finished?  I will then review the changes you have made and if I agree with you will cull the words also from my dictionary.