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Author Topic: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves  (Read 1350 times)

NTJedi

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Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« on: September 11, 2018, 01:13:15 am »

I'm old fashion... is there any way to easily make sure all males where a shirt and all females where a dress?  It's annoying when I see my male dwarves wearing a dress.
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Ziusudra

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2018, 01:27:27 am »

I don't think so, but you could rename the items that offend your delicate, narrow minded, delusional sensibilities.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2018, 02:16:22 am »

There's no easy way. There are complicated ways, i.e. burrowing them such that their range overlaps, but there are dedicated stockpiles for each gender. You'd have to do without invaders, though, as their clothing will be picked up by anyone, and you'd have to do without civilian alerts, as those release everyone from their normal alerts.

Another way is to introduce physical dimorphism so that the size of females and males differ enough for them not to be able to wear clothes made for the other gender. You'd then play walruses rather than dorfs, though, but you could solve the invader clothing issue by making neither gender size compatible with any normal race (which probably means going even further towards walruses by making males (presumably) larger than humans and females (presumably) smaller than elves/goblins, You could also reverse it to go along the spider route.

And, by the way, DF names are unspecified as well...

You can also try to think of dresses on males as kaftans and skirts as kilts. Most cultures in human history seem to have used drafty clothing rather than pants.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2018, 03:56:27 am »

Sadly, physical dimorphism doesn't work, iirc they'll be both able to wear, but the relative name is given according to the largest caste while clothing weight is given according to smallest.

You can see this in arena by creating antmen: gold greaves are 16 U and iron mail shirt 5 U on both ant drone and ant queen (54 and 19, respectively, for a dwarf).

NTJedi

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2018, 04:01:42 am »

Thanks PatrikLundell and Fleeting Flames for your civilized and helpful responses.  I was hoping there was an easy way for clothing items to be assigned to one of the two genders inside the raw files.  For right now I will use the autodump and forceequip commands from dfhack as a temporary workaround when the wrong ones are chosen.  Maybe some other good ideas will appear tomorrow.
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Ulfarr

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2018, 04:35:04 am »

Why don't you just create all male/female civilian squads and use two separate uniforms, one with dresses and one with shirts?
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Xyon

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2018, 05:02:08 am »

Why don't you just create all male/female civilian squads and use two separate uniforms, one with dresses and one with shirts?

Yeah this is the best way to do it. Create a very specific clothing uniform and 'replace clothes' with it, just leave those squads inactive but wear their equipment while inactive.
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Sver

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2018, 05:16:02 am »

"Dress" is, in fact, a vague term, especially if we're talking about a pseudo-medieval setting. It can be used simply as a synonym for "clothes". The term "male dress" is pretty common in fashion history books.

But if that little detail really irks you, might as well just replace certain types of clothing with something more neutral, like the aforementioned "clothes".
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Kat

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2018, 11:54:16 am »

Sadly, physical dimorphism doesn't work, iirc they'll be both able to wear, but the relative name is given according to the largest caste while clothing weight is given according to smallest.

You can see this in arena by creating antmen: gold greaves are 16 U and iron mail shirt 5 U on both ant drone and ant queen (54 and 19, respectively, for a dwarf).

So, if you are planning on modding a race to have several castes, and one is radically different size to another caste (e.g. your own 'ant men' race), then the larger castes will have disproportionately lightweight armour ? Hmm. that's not necessarily ideal.

What about a creature who has radically different body shapes between castes ? e.g. one being a humanoid biped, another being a centaur-like being. Other than the centaur wearing 4 boots and 4 socks, then the rest of the armour would still fit just fine ?  ???
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2018, 02:28:21 pm »

Some antmen have wings, others do not. I don't see why not.

I don't know how they behave with putting on armour sized for other creatures, though, as workaround to lightweight armour. If it worked, it'd be a solution (I suspect not, though; partially as  children don't wear smaller clothing either)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 02:29:57 pm by Fleeting Frames »
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Paralyzoid

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2018, 06:49:45 pm »

The easy solution: If your main source of annoyance is seeing the male dwarves wearing dresses, don't make dresses. The other clothes are pretty gender-neutral (at least today they are), so they shouldn't be as big of a concern.

Plus, dresses in a booze hall or on the battlefield never made sense anyway.
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NTJedi

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2018, 09:11:41 pm »

Thanks for the additional responses!  I will use the idea of having all male/female civilian squads and use two separate uniforms.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2018, 10:33:17 am »

@Paralyzoid: Have you heard about the expression "girding their loins"? I believe that is what they did in the old days to prepare their "dresses" for the battlefield.
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gchristopher

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2018, 03:21:30 pm »

I usually circumvent this issue by modding the available clothing for dwarven entities to include (FORCED) masks, vests, thongs, and chausses. Make those all from leather (preferably black) and add a silk headscarf and you really have timeless, classic clothing for any gender that also covers all the modesty needs.

The military uniform idea is also great. (Add whips to the dwarven entity, which goes well with the leather industry requirements.)

Of course, none of that works for woodcutters, because of the job vs uniform conflict. They will still have to wear dresses, and that's okay.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: Clothing Male Dwarves and Female Dwarves
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2018, 11:34:58 pm »

Quote
[The woodcutters] will still have to wear dresses, and that's okay.

But how can they sleep all night and work all day if the day/night cycle isn't implemented in Fortress Mode yet?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 11:36:57 pm by Dozebôm Lolumzalìs »
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