Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Regarding Dwarves, Which grouping fits you the best?

Small Nose Fan
Big Nose Enjoyer

Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 27

Author Topic: ☼«☼Vettlingr's Tileset☼»☼ 32x 1.6-1 - OUTLINED Edition. Updated 3/7-22  (Read 273676 times)

vettlingr

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ţjóđalfur
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3 - Rough Edition. Updated 20/10
« Reply #180 on: November 08, 2019, 10:48:36 am »

tpssurvivor isn't really helping me develop this, although he is right. Df as it is does not support caste-specific Creature sprites such as MALE and FEMALE, though the steam edition and the free edition will in the future. I have seen some prototypes introduced by meph on what the sprite sheets would look like, though im still hesitant to go head making them, due to toady often not delivering fully on graphics requests. But we'll see. FEMALE and MALE graphics are planned.

Thank you for your response, Vettlingr.

Hm, I should start doing more research behind about anything I discover that has been created by the community for Dwarf Fortress to determine rather it is a hack or something that is natively supported by Dwarf Fortress since it is such a highly moddable game, so apologies for my ignorance.

Take your time with them—no rush at all. Waiting for Toady to fully support and implement graphics requests when he finds time for them during the development of all of those exciting things we're getting soon, that I've read about from the latest 'Future of the Fortress' blog, would help with saving your time and efforts just in case those graphics requests don't happen or are partially implemented.

I can live with the races sharing one male or female sprite and knowing that their counterparts are planned for their respective sexes, so thanks again. ❦

I mean, people seem fine with the female dwarfs having beards and female humans have moustache, its always the female elves being male that makes people react for some reason.
The previous of course being the reason I made the latter. In hindsight, elves are probably the least sexually dimorphic of all the civ races, so the representation was unnecessary. But you know.

There is a lot on my plate still, even if most of the tiles have gotten a vettling touch.
I will phase out most of the creature sprites I burrowed from mephs tileset, which is a lot, maybe over 1000+.
A cool feature would be if the game engine could just "scale up" Giant variations og creatures rather than having to make new anyway.
Multi tile creatures, or creatures outside of the tilesize limit, probably would postpone me making giant variations for a while, or sprites for whales/elephants etc.

There certainly is a list of changes for the sprites that will come into consideration as soon as the next update is released.

- Civ-graphics for all the new randomly generated Positions (If possible)
- Civ Graphics for High priests and other new Positions.
- Possible graphics for mounts (?)

Fi

  • Bay Watcher
  • φ
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3 - Rough Edition. Updated 20/10
« Reply #181 on: November 17, 2019, 04:01:02 pm »

I mean, people seem fine with the female dwarfs having beards and female humans have moustache, its always the female elves being male that makes people react for some reason.
The previous of course being the reason I made the latter. In hindsight, elves are probably the least sexually dimorphic of all the civ races, so the representation was unnecessary. But you know.

There is a lot on my plate still, even if most of the tiles have gotten a vettling touch.
I will phase out most of the creature sprites I burrowed from mephs tileset, which is a lot, maybe over 1000+.
A cool feature would be if the game engine could just "scale up" Giant variations og creatures rather than having to make new anyway.
Multi tile creatures, or creatures outside of the tilesize limit, probably would postpone me making giant variations for a while, or sprites for whales/elephants etc.

There certainly is a list of changes for the sprites that will come into consideration as soon as the next update is released.

- Civ-graphics for all the new randomly generated Positions (If possible)
- Civ Graphics for High priests and other new Positions.
- Possible graphics for mounts (?)

Dwarves have a different culture going on for them, so I do not really mind female Dwarves having the characteristics of a male Dwarf nor do I mind male Dwarves having the characteristics of a female Dwarf since I respect different cultures in general (I think male Dwarves without a beard are considered females—at least that is what I read from someone else explaining why they called a male Dwarven deity a "she" in his comic). I am primarily concerned about biological discrepancy, y'know? Female Dwarves having their breasts and appropriate reproductive organs, and male Dwarves having flat chests (unless they are portly) and their appropriate reproductive organs, and the same thing for every other race that is not a Dwarf. Oh, and I do not play as Dwarves by the way, despite them being the "perfect" race due to being the only playable race for quite some time, because I adore Elves across all games. ❦

You are more than welcomed to take your time with all of it despite what anyone says—unless it is Toady or Threetoe rushing you for a good reason, I suppose. Like I said, there is no rush at all. Hmm, I do not think I have seen any of Meph's tiles in-game—just yours so far; although, I am wondering why the tile of a rotating green cube that will turn into a green staircase will sometimes show up on the direction my Adventurer is moving after a fight. Also, I like how you named your style—the "Vettling" touch, hehe.

What does scaling up giant variations of OG creatures mean? From what I understood, it means... enlarging the size of an existing tile instead of creating a new tile for the same creature that happens to be larger than what is average for them? I have seen incredibly large creatures in Dwarf Portrait, and I have always assumed that they retain the same one-square tile size regardless of their descriptions. Now you have me wanting to search for massive creatures out of curiosity.

Ooo, your list has me all sorts of excited. I will be looking forward to what you will bring to the upcoming updates. ❦
Logged

Meph

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • worldbicyclist
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #182 on: November 18, 2019, 04:42:43 am »

Since you can look up all of this in the game raws:
 - Female dwarves do not have beards. Male dwarves might decide to shave/wear stubble. ;)
Logged
::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Fi

  • Bay Watcher
  • φ
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #183 on: November 18, 2019, 02:35:05 pm »

Since you can look up all of this in the game raws:
 - Female dwarves do not have beards. Male dwarves might decide to shave/wear stubble. ;)

I would certainly look it up if I knew which files/raws contain the information that caught my curiosity. (Is "file" and "raw" being used interchangeably or are raws what is inside the files? I am unfamiliar with Dwarf Fortress lingo.)

I am quite surprised that female Dwarves do not have beards; I figured the female Dwarves had the genetics or... sufficient testosterone to grow hair the way male Dwarves do, but I guess that is simply one of the many minor stereotypes some races have across games, literature, and works of art that features them—female Hobbits having hairy feet as an example. Is shaving a beard acceptable within Dwarf Fortress's Dwarven culture, or is that something Dwarf Fortress's community made into a stigma?
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #184 on: November 18, 2019, 05:25:09 pm »

Since you can look up all of this in the game raws:
 - Female dwarves do not have beards. Male dwarves might decide to shave/wear stubble. ;)

I would certainly look it up if I knew which files/raws contain the information that caught my curiosity. (Is "file" and "raw" being used interchangeably or are raws what is inside the files? I am unfamiliar with Dwarf Fortress lingo.)

I am quite surprised that female Dwarves do not have beards; I figured the female Dwarves had the genetics or... sufficient testosterone to grow hair the way male Dwarves do, but I guess that is simply one of the many minor stereotypes some races have across games, literature, and works of art that features them—female Hobbits having hairy feet as an example. Is shaving a beard acceptable within Dwarf Fortress's Dwarven culture, or is that something Dwarf Fortress's community made into a stigma?
Files in the folder called raw are the raws. Plain English text files anyone can look at, share and tweak to adjust the game to their liking. There's even instructions on how to add beards to female dwarves in the dwarf raws as some people like that.

Besides some guys, mainly on Reddit, with unhealthy obsessions about Elf annihilation, there's no fan-imposed culture. Makes no sense in such a customizable game.
Logged

Fi

  • Bay Watcher
  • φ
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #185 on: November 19, 2019, 03:13:51 am »

Files in the folder called raw are the raws. Plain English text files anyone can look at, share and tweak to adjust the game to their liking. There's even instructions on how to add beards to female dwarves in the dwarf raws as some people like that.

Besides some guys, mainly on Reddit, with unhealthy obsessions about Elf annihilation, there's no fan-imposed culture. Makes no sense in such a customizable game.

Gotcha. I am not going to make any changes to those until I know what affects what and what is what.

I do not believe it does not make any sense nor do I understand what you mean by your mentioning of "highly customizable game". It is entertaining for a community to create their own cultures, stigmas, and reasons behind their favoritism if it relates to the characteristics and stereotypes of the races—especially if the races do not have anything set in stone about themselves that allow us to create our own interpretations of them that do not stray too far from the truth. Is that not about the whole story thing to explained to me in a different thread? What I explained above seems customizable to me from a figurative and roleplayer's approach.

That is why we have the whole Elf hatred thing in the first place and those lovely comics I have been seeing within Dwarf Fortress's community subreddit.
Logged

vettlingr

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ţjóđalfur
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #186 on: November 19, 2019, 05:10:52 am »

Files in the folder called raw are the raws. Plain English text files anyone can look at, share and tweak to adjust the game to their liking. There's even instructions on how to add beards to female dwarves in the dwarf raws as some people like that.

Besides some guys, mainly on Reddit, with unhealthy obsessions about Elf annihilation, there's no fan-imposed culture. Makes no sense in such a customizable game.

Gotcha. I am not going to make any changes to those until I know what affects what and what is what.

I do not believe it does not make any sense nor do I understand what you mean by your mentioning of "highly customizable game". It is entertaining for a community to create their own cultures, stigmas, and reasons behind their favoritism if it relates to the characteristics and stereotypes of the races—especially if the races do not have anything set in stone about themselves that allow us to create our own interpretations of them that do not stray too far from the truth. Is that not about the whole story thing to explained to me in a different thread? What I explained above seems customizable to me from a figurative and roleplayer's approach.

That is why we have the whole Elf hatred thing in the first place and those lovely comics I have been seeing within Dwarf Fortress's community subreddit.
There certainly is a culture based on community perception, but it is not uniform. Some notions are derived from previous conceptions of dwarven culture in other fantasy games, ranging from tolkien to Warhammer. Certainly the Axe & Hammer vs Everything is prevailed far back, but does it makes sense?
It certainly takes a better smith to create an immaculate sword, while spears and halberds are more suitable for dwarves because of their short reach. The problem with this pragmatism is however that the fantasy element is lost in exchange for more realism, and then you may rather play medieval coal-miner simulator. Other things that drives player culture/fort culture are Efficiency and Challenges. Efficiency such as only making certain pieces of clothing, remaning peaceful with all races and using only hammers and spears for less post-battle clutter.

Challenges offer more fun cultural variations as it limits the player choices and force sacrifices, the most interesting DF stories are based on challenges by far.

Thats my 2 cents, as a content creator, I don't think I should adhere to any community culture too much, and sometimes I refer to it as "What not to do" as static community perceptions don't really translate well into interesting Content.

Fi

  • Bay Watcher
  • φ
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #187 on: November 19, 2019, 05:53:35 am »

There certainly is a culture based on community perception, but it is not uniform. Some notions are derived from previous conceptions of dwarven culture in other fantasy games, ranging from tolkien to Warhammer. Certainly the Axe & Hammer vs Everything is prevailed far back, but does it makes sense?
It certainly takes a better smith to create an immaculate sword, while spears and halberds are more suitable for dwarves because of their short reach. The problem with this pragmatism is however that the fantasy element is lost in exchange for more realism, and then you may rather play medieval coal-miner simulator. Other things that drives player culture/fort culture are Efficiency and Challenges. Efficiency such as only making certain pieces of clothing, remaning peaceful with all races and using only hammers and spears for less post-battle clutter.

Challenges offer more fun cultural variations as it limits the player choices and force sacrifices, the most interesting DF stories are based on challenges by far.

Thats my 2 cents, as a content creator, I don't think I should adhere to any community culture too much, and sometimes I refer to it as "What not to do" as static community perceptions don't really translate well into interesting Content.

Mhmm, that is what I meant by "relates to the characteristics and stereotypes of the races" as in how they are portrayed in other works of art—Warhammer being your example—that forms the foundation for the community's imagination to expand upon with their idea of their cultures, their personalities, and their societies as they see fit if the game allows them to do as much by leaving the races vague or enigmatic.

However, these are just the community's perception as you said yourself, and they should not be taken to heart by anyone nor imposed upon others which is not a good thing to do. I personally think it is comedic, entertaining, and a wee bit fascinating to learn how the community feels about each race, their perceptions of them (Elves being snooty "Knife Ears"—despite being very formal and polite from my experiences with interacting with them—that are so far up their butts that they are fine with their usage of nature but are not fine with other races mimicking their usage of nature), and how they portray each race in their works of art (comics) or roleplay sessions.

You are right about some of the Fantasy element being lost in favor of realism which may cripple efficiency, but what matters most to these people is if they are having fun restricting each race to their respective customs based on their perception of them and their knowledge of their culture and stereotypes found from literature or other games if the game makes it even slightly possible to win while doing so which is a challenge in itself. Of course, the game can try to cater to these type of players through balance and equality across all races—similarly to what classless RPGs attempt to do despite there being a "meta" build that makes every other build niche or useless which the Devs try to cull through various means, but that will not always work out since that could remove innate racial diversity. (Build diversity as well? I am unsure if every build being adequate for anything means that there is build diversity—perhaps it would be if certain builds were situational or vice versa.)

Nevertheless, all I wanted to know is if the whole Dwarf beard stigma thing was an in-game thing via dialogue or something fabricated by the community based on a stereotype. I did not mean to imply that the fans of Dwarf Fortress imposed anything upon other players concerning racial culture nor that it is okay to do so.



(E: Elusive typo caught, killed, and replaced.)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 05:57:41 am by Fi »
Logged

Fi

  • Bay Watcher
  • φ
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #188 on: November 19, 2019, 07:55:03 pm »

I wanted to let you know that I love your tiles for the Elves.

I was training Archery and Bowman, and I noticed that my Adventurer's tile changed to match her proficiency in Archery, Bowman, or perhaps both. I did not know the games changes tiles that way, so that was a quite a pleasant surprise. Now I need to find a way to train those two guys above me to see their advanced profession tiles:



I was going to make another comment to ask this question, but I decided not to do so since I am not one to spam. GM-X expressed interest in creating a Dark Ages III: War & Mythos-compatible version of your tileset, and I wanted to ask for your permission for him to do—unless you would rather have him ask you for permission instead. If the latter, consider me a supporter of his interest in your tileset.

His expansive mod and your tileset are two among three things that make Dwarf Fortress an immense delight to me, and I would love for those two things to be compatible with each other through your permission. Your tileset does work with his mod as shown above, but I believe certain creatures unique to Dark Ages III: War & Mythos will appear as ASCII in-game instead of the their unique graphic tiles made available with other tilesets he made compatible with his mod with permission.

(E: Added a question and extra text below the screenshot.)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 05:03:04 am by Fi »
Logged

Rekov

  • Bay Watcher
  • Elf Aficionado
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #189 on: December 31, 2019, 07:19:34 pm »

I'm not sure this question even makes sense, but I'll try anyways:

Is there any reason why the Vettlingr tileset wouldn't properly display 'grass' tiles that are part of a workshop? I'm creating custom workshops as part of a mod, and I noticed that with this tileset, grass tiles (tiles 39, 044, 046, 096), they instead get the appearance of smoothed stone/constructed floors.
Logged

vettlingr

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ţjóđalfur
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #190 on: January 01, 2020, 02:02:55 pm »

I'm not sure this question even makes sense, but I'll try anyways:

Is there any reason why the Vettlingr tileset wouldn't properly display 'grass' tiles that are part of a workshop? I'm creating custom workshops as part of a mod, and I noticed that with this tileset, grass tiles (tiles 39, 044, 046, 096), they instead get the appearance of smoothed stone/constructed floors.
I assume you have been using the outdated version included in the LNP, since afaik I have removed this in the latest release.

Rekov

  • Bay Watcher
  • Elf Aficionado
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #191 on: January 01, 2020, 04:02:35 pm »

You're quite right! Ég ţakka ţér.
Logged

Rekov

  • Bay Watcher
  • Elf Aficionado
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #192 on: January 02, 2020, 12:41:26 am »

Actually, I have a somewhat similar question.


All of the pink tiles here were set to the 005 tile. However only a few of them actually have the correct appearance. Every time the workshop is built, different tiles randomly get the correct appearance vs. the other one. Is this just the result of the tileset overlaying different sprites or something?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 12:46:21 am by Rekov »
Logged

vettlingr

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ţjóđalfur
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #193 on: January 04, 2020, 05:16:21 am »

Actually, I have a somewhat similar question.


All of the pink tiles here were set to the 005 tile. However only a few of them actually have the correct appearance. Every time the workshop is built, different tiles randomly get the correct appearance vs. the other one. Is this just the result of the tileset overlaying different sprites or something?
I dont really know why this happens. It probably has to do with what tile takes priority for the override. Meph and Fleeting Frames are way better at explaining why this happens than me though. I'm guessing those are workshop tiles built on top of regular plants?

Rekov

  • Bay Watcher
  • Elf Aficionado
    • View Profile
Re: ≡Vettlingr's Tileset≡ 1.3.1 - Volcanic Edition. Updated 6/11
« Reply #194 on: January 04, 2020, 06:15:42 pm »

I dont really know why this happens. It probably has to do with what tile takes priority for the override. Meph and Fleeting Frames are way better at explaining why this happens than me though. I'm guessing those are workshop tiles built on top of regular plants?
That isn't it, but it helped me figure it out!

The correct tile appearance (large flowers) only appears when that tile is built over bare stone. The incorrect (small flowers) tiles appear when built over grass.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 27