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Author Topic: Rented Rooms for the Tavern  (Read 1138 times)

NTJedi

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Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« on: September 13, 2018, 06:07:19 pm »

Is it best to provide a container and cabinet in the rented rooms for the tavern?   I don't want the visitors having bad thoughts or consider leaving because these were missing.  Also if they are not needed and/or used in the rented rooms I don't want to waste time and resources placing them down.    Any advice?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 06:12:34 pm »

Your mercs will probably want somewhere to put there private clothes if you assign them to squads and give them uniforms.

Bards will probably cope OK. Don't think there's a specific bad thought for not having a cabinet, is there?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 02:36:20 am »

As far as I know, only nobles get grumpy for not having specific furniture. However, everyone (possibly subject to personality traits) likes a more valuable room, and furniture provides value, but any furniture will do that, as will larger rooms, smoothing, and engravings. The only "practical" use I've seen for a container in a room is to stuff food in when going off duty (rather than leave it on he floor to rot and spread miasma).
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2018, 06:14:15 am »

Doesn't it rot in container too? At least you can place food stockpiles on floor.

Adequate Swimmer

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2018, 07:40:12 am »

It sort of makes sense to make them identical to basic rooms so they can be repurposed later, and to have a cleaner layout.

Also a lot of "poets" and "visitors" are actually on goblin payroll and will note down the location of traps and trap components. There is a small chance to get a vampire or werebeast guest, but they are far outnumbered by mundane spies. Also a guest will occasionally commit murder, either from deciding to sleep on the floor and going insane or because of vampirism.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2018, 08:19:42 am »

I don't know if food rots in containers, but I do know those containers don't spread miasma around them. As far as I know the dropped food is never picked up again (they take new stuff from the normal food stockpiles and then drop that in their rooms as well when going off duty, gradually accumulating a hoard of food).

I've identified 4 goblin spies in my fortress, and all of them have been anonymous performance troop members. I don't have dedicated temples open to visitors, so the peddler/monk/pilgrim hordes are kept out, though.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2018, 12:46:44 pm »

Long-term residents (and no-nobles in general) don't care about particular furniture, but they will make use of it if needed. When someone makes too much mess in his room (dropped clothes), I build a cabinet, and he quickly cleans it up by putting stuff in the cabinet. In case of rooms shared by a couple, I sometimes need to build a second cabinet. They can use a single one without problems, but there is a limit of items both already stored and waiting to be stored in a single cabinet, and if it is reached or close to, then the mess starts again. With two cabinets it doesn't really happens (unless there are no haulers or storage for xclothingx). Fortunately a new cabinet can be built over owned clothing. I don't use food or drink with my military, so don't know about containers.

Sometimes I add pedestals with items the visitors like or build such items like (like cages), made of materials they like, but so far never got a thought about these items. Only about the general room quality. They also have thoughts about things like waterfall, or traps, or doors, like anyone else, but they don't seem to consider such things as "their" if built in their room.


As for peddlers... I have one, and with all testing with dfhack than I could do, he seems to be actual peddler, with real identity. I have only one real spy (a poet posing as a monster slayer or vice versa, he is listed as a Performer in locations list), in a big fortress with 340 citizens and 100 visitors.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2018, 01:38:43 pm »

I expect most peddlers, monks, and pilgrims to be what they claim to be, but given that they don't have any use except possibly as Visitite donors, I see no point in getting them (that will presumably change eventually, when they do something useful/interesting). Taking up visitor slots from the ones I actually want isn't useful in my view.
I'm using a script to check for gobbo civ members, visitors with multiple identities, and how many traps different entities have identified. The only dual identity visitor in my current fortress was a vampire (identified as such on entering the map, when I checked back after the script gave an indication). I've only verified one of the spies by letting the performance troupe leave and then see the gobbo civ getting to know about a number of traps, and I did that twice, with the same result. Actual trap replacement has been done based on actually seeing them not triggered by goblin siegers, while I've killed the gobbo civ members of performance troupes (except the original one, where I instead accepted the troupe's petition. The bugger is still a gobbo civ member in Legends info, but being a member of the fortress there won't be any reporting back (banishing might be an interesting test, but not sufficiently so for me to test it). I've seen no loyalty mess with the gobbo when goblins invade (I've had what probably was a completely unrelated incident with a visitor who triggered fear during a siege, but didn't find anything indicating why in the Legends info).
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2018, 02:03:08 pm »

As an aside, does the observed traps also apply to (citizen-triggered?) pressure plates? If not, could build 1 design. If yes, could build another one that prevents citizens from going into trap.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2018, 05:25:01 pm »

Well, it seems to be everything that's built with b-T-*, including levers, if I remember correctly, but I haven't checked in detail. I haven't got many pressure plates, and they're hard to reach for visitors (the atom smashing prisoner execution device and minecart repeaters, basically).
The thingies have a list of ids of entities that have seen it, and it builds up to a fair number in my fortress, something like 40 at a guess. My script counts totals and only cage traps. Also, the entites are civs, site governments, and performance troupes, as far as I've seen, but not a complete set: only some performance troupes note traps, and I don't know why there's a difference. It can also be mentioned that units have lists of traps they have seen, but obviously, invaders that leave doesn't bring that info with them home. Also the unit lists are not culled, as far as I can tell, so they contain traps I've ripped up and rebuilt after gobbos failed to get caught in them (and, presumably, the ones a dragon fried).
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NTJedi

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2018, 10:41:10 pm »

Thanks this has been very helpful... I've setup the rented rooms and just waiting for the visitors to rent them.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2018, 03:10:48 am »

I'm not sure if you've misunderstood how it works, NTJedi. Visitors petition regardless of whether there are rooms available for them or not (there is no such thing as "renting" as such), but if accepted without any rooms (or dorm beds) available they sleep on the floor, which won't exactly make them happier. I don't know if available rooms increases the petition pressure, though.
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NTJedi

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2018, 04:35:46 am »

I'm not sure if you've misunderstood how it works, NTJedi. Visitors petition regardless of whether there are rooms available for them or not (there is no such thing as "renting" as such), but if accepted without any rooms (or dorm beds) available they sleep on the floor, which won't exactly make them happier. I don't know if available rooms increases the petition pressure, though.
Renting room details are listed in the Dwarf Fortress wiki and I have a visitor "renting" one of the rooms now.
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NTJedi

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2018, 06:19:13 pm »

Nobody in the tavern seems to respect the people who own the rented rooms.  Also I've noticed the rented rooms are working, but it's not allowing me to assign the military dwarves into my squads. 
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NTJedi

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Re: Rented Rooms for the Tavern
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2018, 08:26:01 pm »

Nobody in the tavern seems to respect the people who own the rented rooms.  Also I've noticed the rented rooms are working, but it's not allowing me to assign the military dwarves into my squads.


Would this happen because I don't have a tavern keeper assigned to the tavern??   Just my guess.
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