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Author Topic: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map  (Read 3289 times)

NTJedi

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I have noticed the animals and monsters don't eat easy dead food on the map which has not gone rotten.  This would help keep the maps clean as well and is realistic. 
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2018, 02:59:23 am »

Animals eating at all would be a major improvement--I've only ever seen grazers eat. Carnivores should consume (most of) their kills, herbivores should eat appropriate wild plants and even farmed crops that they encounter, certain birds should dive for fish, etc. I once had a Giant Armadillo that sat on the exact same tile for over 5 years, because it was never coded to seek & destroy termite colonies (speaking of which, termite mounds should sometimes appear as multi-tile structures).
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voliol

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 07:51:43 am »

I really hope we get an ”ecology pack” sometime, with non-grazers eating, (partially random) food webs, stomach containers, better animal-made structures/hives/nests/dams, improved animal behaviour (monkeys climbing, am I right?), parasites and pests, and of course plant soil requirements and with it a farming rehaul. Especially since there are more or less enough species to support these improved systems should they be implemented.

Strik3r

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2018, 08:28:37 am »

I can not actually figure out: Why is this not a thing yet? Even in some basic form, even if its just carnivores consuming unrotten corpses and scavangers eating rotting ones. Having absolutely no system in place for creatures eating stuff on-map(it happens in worldgen if a LARGE_PREDAOR or MEGABEAST goes on a rampage) is a pretty big oversight, and it is a oversight, as there are no barriers in place preventing implementation. The only reason i see for not implementing it so far: Not wanting to track the hunger level of every creature on the map. Which is something that does not need to be done, the creatures could just every once in a while "get hungry" and (try to) seek out some food.

Besides having beasts help clean up the corpses would be a nice way for the game improve FPS on its own.

Also this:
Animals eating at all would be a major improvement--I've only ever seen grazers eat. Carnivores should consume (most of) their kills, herbivores should eat appropriate wild plants and even farmed crops that they encounter, certain birds should dive for fish, etc. I once had a Giant Armadillo that sat on the exact same tile for over 5 years, because it was never coded to seek & destroy termite colonies (speaking of which, termite mounds should sometimes appear as multi-tile structures).

And also all of this:
I really hope we get an ”ecology pack” sometime, with non-grazers eating, (partially random) food webs, stomach containers, better animal-made structures/hives/nests/dams, improved animal behaviour (monkeys climbing, am I right?), parasites and pests, and of course plant soil requirements and with it a farming rehaul. Especially since there are more or less enough species to support these improved systems should they be implemented.

stomach containers
For anyone not familiar, the details regarding this can be found in the Stomach capacity, metabolism, and digestion thread, for future reference.
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Azerty

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 09:46:25 am »

Animals eating at all would be a major improvement--I've only ever seen grazers eat. Carnivores should consume (most of) their kills, herbivores should eat appropriate wild plants and even farmed crops that they encounter, certain birds should dive for fish, etc. I once had a Giant Armadillo that sat on the exact same tile for over 5 years, because it was never coded to seek & destroy termite colonies (speaking of which, termite mounds should sometimes appear as multi-tile structures).

While the wiki signals issues with CARNIVORE token in 0.34 made creatures such as goblins starve, no such issues are signaled for the current version.
OTOH, the wiki notes that, for the current version, CAN_LEARN is needed for any creature belonging of a civilization to need to eat and drink; similarly, for the CARNIVORE tokens, it signals "If the creature goes on rampages in worldgen, it will often devour the people/animals it kills."

So it seems carnivore eating meat is still being under development.

I can not actually figure out: Why is this not a thing yet? Even in some basic form, even if its just carnivores consuming unrotten corpses and scavangers eating rotting ones. Having absolutely no system in place for creatures eating stuff on-map(it happens in worldgen if a LARGE_PREDAOR or MEGABEAST goes on a rampage) is a pretty big oversight, and it is a oversight, as there are no barriers in place preventing implementation. The only reason i see for not implementing it so far: Not wanting to track the hunger level of every creature on the map. Which is something that does not need to be done, the creatures could just every once in a while "get hungry" and (try to) seek out some food.

Besides having beasts help clean up the corpses would be a nice way for the game improve FPS on its own.

Also this:
Animals eating at all would be a major improvement--I've only ever seen grazers eat. Carnivores should consume (most of) their kills, herbivores should eat appropriate wild plants and even farmed crops that they encounter, certain birds should dive for fish, etc. I once had a Giant Armadillo that sat on the exact same tile for over 5 years, because it was never coded to seek & destroy termite colonies (speaking of which, termite mounds should sometimes appear as multi-tile structures).

And also all of this:
I really hope we get an ”ecology pack” sometime, with non-grazers eating, (partially random) food webs, stomach containers, better animal-made structures/hives/nests/dams, improved animal behaviour (monkeys climbing, am I right?), parasites and pests, and of course plant soil requirements and with it a farming rehaul. Especially since there are more or less enough species to support these improved systems should they be implemented.

stomach containers
For anyone not familiar, the details regarding this can be found in the Stomach capacity, metabolism, and digestion thread, for future reference.

Predation might be difficult to modelize: predators might have to be coded so that they might have to estimate the strength of their prey and compare it to theirs to avoid scenarii where a cat would attempt to take an elephant by himself; we would also have to code for the behaviour of pack of predators.

However, scavengers might easy to code, just sent them to the nearest source of corpses, although we should also account for the amount of food: a battlefield at 20 squares might be more enticing than a mere body at 2 squares.

But I agree, it seems the amount of animals has taken efforts at actually making wildlife alive.
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Strik3r

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 11:36:20 am »

Predation might be difficult to modelize: predators might have to be coded so that they might have to estimate the strength of their prey and compare it to theirs to avoid scenarii where a cat would attempt to take an elephant by himself; we would also have to code for the behaviour of pack of predators.

However, scavengers might easy to code, just sent them to the nearest source of corpses, although we should also account for the amount of food: a battlefield at 20 squares might be more enticing than a mere body at 2 squares.

But I agree, it seems the amount of animals has taken efforts at actually making wildlife alive.

Basic predation model is already in place: Creatures with LARGE_PREDATOR generally only attack creatures smaller than them, IIRC.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 12:09:21 pm »

For the principle purpose of fun, if and (when) grazer hunger overlaps with wild grazers searching your overmap for food or moving on if it can't find it, predators could off the principle of the OP, hang over corpses removing parts at a time and consuming them until full with their own meat based saiety level. (sorry if i glossed over other thead points a little im reading a few sections of it now while im writing)

This would mean that dogs (plural) typically would naturally clean up battlefields afterwards if left loose to roam  and it wasn't too scary for dwarves to watch, maybe throw them into a special disposal pit full of captured trolls to dispose of skin & bones.

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Though on the other hand, it would be a good exercise to create a sealed pool and infest it with sharks & sea monsters, sort of like the star wars trash monster.

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Umbra Dwarf

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2018, 09:52:19 am »

The only thing I can really disagree with is that I like to have my fortress flooded with giant tigers that I don't have to feed, yet have an insatiable appetite for my enemies and breed uncontrollably. I don't even have to worry about getting a military together (expect when I want to get rid of pesky nobles. They never suspect anything even when I call them the "Need to die" squad). Also you would be nerfing (in my opinion) the only good thing elves trade, other than booze.
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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2018, 05:18:37 pm »

Game balance is usually secondary to realism in Dwarf Fortress.
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Pillbo

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2019, 04:00:00 pm »

The only thing I can really disagree with is that I like to have my fortress flooded with giant tigers that I don't have to feed, yet have an insatiable appetite for my enemies and breed uncontrollably. I don't even have to worry about getting a military together (expect when I want to get rid of pesky nobles. They never suspect anything even when I call them the "Need to die" squad). Also you would be nerfing (in my opinion) the only good thing elves trade, other than booze.

Sort of bumping in agreement with voliol's recent scavenger thread but also to add, this isn't a a good reason not to make predators eat.  Creatures eating and hunting would solve a lot of problems but nothing would stop your infinite, hungerless giant tiger population by adding [NO_EAT] tag to the giant tiger raw.  That's a great trade off IMO.
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Five chickens

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2019, 04:13:24 pm »

Dogs should lick up vomit and blood.  You know they would in real life.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2019, 12:22:01 pm »

Predation might be difficult to modelize: predators might have to be coded so that they might have to estimate the strength of their prey and compare it to theirs to avoid scenarii where a cat would attempt to take an elephant by himself; we would also have to code for the behaviour of pack of predators.

However, scavengers might easy to code, just sent them to the nearest source of corpses, although we should also account for the amount of food: a battlefield at 20 squares might be more enticing than a mere body at 2 squares.

But I agree, it seems the amount of animals has taken efforts at actually making wildlife alive.

Most predators are not clever enough to do anything but compare "how big am I", "how big are they" and "how many buddies do I have". 

On other notes, how about eating the player?
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Bumber

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2019, 04:18:34 pm »

On other notes, how about eating the player?
You mean the omniscient overseer!? ???
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Animals and Monsters eating up dead things and remains on the map
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2019, 07:51:55 am »

You mean the omniscient overseer!? ???

The player isn't omniscient.  ;)
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