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Author Topic: A dwarf fortress multiverse  (Read 533 times)

DudeeDew

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A dwarf fortress multiverse
« on: October 06, 2018, 01:51:33 pm »

Having read similar suggestions, I've decided to throw in my own one for Toady to view or even consider.
With upcoming magic/myth update, it could be natural to, as topic says, add different co-existing planes of existence and instead of creating a single world generate a whole multiverse.

So, there are a few things to note about this and several ways to implement.
First of all, the planes are generated simultaneously. It's not about merging already existing worlds. The easiest option is to make the worlds share the same raws, more complex solution: use different sets of them, saving them and using some additional markings to, for example, distinguish the dwarves of plane A from a little different ones of plane B.
While you can simply make a couple (or even dozens) of worlds with the same world constants (or maybe even the same terrain seed, for maximal parallelism), you can, at the cost of memory and probably some speed (in addition to obvious FPS loss due to simultaneous processing of a number of worlds), have conflict-free multiverse with the potential of planar travel, which may be added in magic updates.

How will this work for us, users?
At multiverse generation screen we might have an option to add planes, each using its own specific set of raws (and the sets may be shared as I've mentioned above) and other settings (like high-fantasy/low-fantasy that Toady promised for myth update and, of course, the init settings). These sets are then added to the multiverse folder and are used by the game when playing this muliverse.

But there's more. This concept may be improved by generating special planes with unusual properties automatically. Like something similar to astral plane in D&D multiverse. Or whatever else.
The main idea is to make different planes with different gods, civilizations and histories, and allowing mages and magical entities to open portals between them. This may lead to a lot of fun when your fortress mage opens a gateway to a plane dominated by clowns. Or a plane where there are no dwarves, only humans fighting goblins, both races stuck at bronze age and will pay tons of gold for steel weapons.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 05:55:20 am by DudeeDew »
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GoblinCookie

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Re: A dwarf fortress multiverse
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 07:57:15 am »

It is quite a lot of memory just to make one medium-sized region. 
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KittyTac

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Re: A dwarf fortress multiverse
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 09:33:37 am »

It is quite a lot of memory just to make one medium-sized region.
We can assume that computers will get more memory by the time the Myth release comes around, given the current trends.
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erlz

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Re: A dwarf fortress multiverse
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 02:23:05 pm »

It is quite a lot of memory just to make one medium-sized region.
We can assume that computers will get more memory by the time the Myth release comes around, given the current trends.

Probably true but I think that most people wouldn't get new computers so soon.
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SixOfSpades

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Re: A dwarf fortress multiverse
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 03:34:26 pm »

I've previously suggested the concept of a "divine" plane, home to the gods. The pantheon of each civilization each forms its own little village, where they interact with each other--gods may form friendships or enmities with each other, they may trade/steal spheres from each other (or even create/lose/destroy spheres), they may have children with each other (with the child necessarily inheriting at least one sphere from its parents). Gods from one "village" might even visit other villages (especially if their civ goes extinct, leaving the gods homeless), leading to similar types of interpantheonic behavior. These events would happen much more infrequently between gods than between mortals, but they would still happen, adding a fun layer of dynamic mythology to Legends mode.

This is relevant to the OP because in my opinion, if an Adventurer repeatedly performs noteworthy enough services to a particular god, that deity may raise the Adventurer to the status of Demigod, complete with a rather minor sphere ("Yay. I'm the demigod of muck. Woo hoo.") and the ability to plane-shift to the Astral realm, where they can interact with actual gods. (Benefits to Fortress mode seem far less apparent--sure, perhaps a god could open a gate inside their temple and creatures/items could come through, but you'd get the same effect with much less work by simply creating the items/creatures instead.)

But as for multiple versions of the Prime Material, I can't see how that would be much of a benefit. Opening up portals between planes seems functionally almost identical to portals between different parts of the same plane--with the only meaningful difference being connections between, as you said, high-magic and low-magic realms.
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DudeeDew

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Re: A dwarf fortress multiverse
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2018, 01:11:04 pm »

It is quite a lot of memory just to make one medium-sized region.
We can assume that computers will get more memory by the time the Myth release comes around, given the current trends.
Probably true but I think that most people wouldn't get new computers so soon.
It should never be mandatory. If you don't have enough memory, you can just generate worlds old-style.

I've previously suggested the concept of a "divine" plane, home to the gods. The pantheon of each civilization each forms its own little village, where they interact with each other--gods may form friendships or enmities with each other, they may trade/steal spheres from each other (or even create/lose/destroy spheres), they may have children with each other (with the child necessarily inheriting at least one sphere from its parents). Gods from one "village" might even visit other villages (especially if their civ goes extinct, leaving the gods homeless), leading to similar types of interpantheonic behavior. These events would happen much more infrequently between gods than between mortals, but they would still happen, adding a fun layer of dynamic mythology to Legends mode.

This is relevant to the OP because in my opinion, if an Adventurer repeatedly performs noteworthy enough services to a particular god, that deity may raise the Adventurer to the status of Demigod, complete with a rather minor sphere ("Yay. I'm the demigod of muck. Woo hoo.") and the ability to plane-shift to the Astral realm, where they can interact with actual gods. (Benefits to Fortress mode seem far less apparent--sure, perhaps a god could open a gate inside their temple and creatures/items could come through, but you'd get the same effect with much less work by simply creating the items/creatures instead.)

But as for multiple versions of the Prime Material, I can't see how that would be much of a benefit. Opening up portals between planes seems functionally almost identical to portals between different parts of the same plane--with the only meaningful difference being connections between, as you said, high-magic and low-magic realms.
1) Yes, it could be fun to have special planes, which I've already mentioned. But I'd add also the circus plane where all clowns originate. So the underworld will instead have portals where the clowns come from. It's kinda game-changing idea, so I don't think Toady will ever make it real.
3) As I mentioned, if we're allowed to make planes use different sets of raws, those could be completely different worlds. Even if we're not, we could have situations I've mentioned in the starting post, as well as a plane with no civilizations at all, or maybe a dwarf-only plane, or even goblin-only, if game allows us to make init entries for them individually as well.
Some power goals:
dwarves, fearing extinction, flee into another plane while being attacked by a tremendous army of goblins. As they all walk into the portal and destroy it behind them, they find out that this world is all dry and barren, covered in sand and rocks. Few of them survive until they find an underground river which is controlled by underground elves, who make dwarves their slaves;
a wizard, scheming some evil plot, opens a portal to a world filled with clowns in the town's severs. Fun happens;
an adventuring mage, trying to escape the inevitable death, opens up a portal and exits it right in the middle of a dark fortress.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: A dwarf fortress multiverse
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 05:13:18 pm »

Quote
. Yes, it could be fun to have special planes, which I've already mentioned. But I'd add also the circus plane where all clowns originate. So the underworld will instead have portals where the clowns come from. It's kinda game-changing idea, so I don't think Toady will ever make it real.
This is pretty much what's going to happen with Mythgen. The hfs in its current form won't exist. Planes of existence and their entrances will be defined according to the myth. In some worlds it will be the plane of circus clowns with entrances deep underground as we're used to, in others. something completely different.
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