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[Staalo]

Not sure if there's already a topic about this, at least I couldn't find any with any search terms I could think.

After moving to the latest version (.44.12) I've started noticing curious references to dwarves who are not members of my fort. Migrant dwarves have relatives in their relations screen who are marked as fort members (colored name and profession), and whose thoughts can be viewed, but are still not actually citizens in my fort. When (z)oomed from relations screen, cursor goes to the northwesternmost corner of the map on the lowest Z-level possible. This is usually even lower that Hell, so obviously no one is actually at that position.

Another example is in my current fort, where few weeks after embarking a message appears:

Obok Trancemetals has claimed the position of expedition leader of The Copper Hall.

Obok Trancemetals isn't a member of my starting seven and my group name isn't The Copper Hall. When (z)ooming on that message, cursor goes again to that same position below Hell.

So there either seem to be invisible "phantom" people living in my forts, or I'm seeing thoughts of people living somewhere else. These dwarves persist in relations screens and seem to react to some events not happening in my fort: they have thoughts, they're getting distracted, etc. They do exist in Legends, which stubbornly claim they have been living in their faraway hillocks all the time when I look into a fresh snapshot.

So is this a new bug? Again I couldn't find anything in the bug tracker, but this might be related to the "disappearing caravan" bug.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Are you using any mods?
Might be just your zoom is broken, combined with some coincidental naming of spies with fake identities (claiming the position of another group in the world is normal, if the leader dies, the heir becomes the new leader).

[Staalo]

No mods, only non-standard thing is dfhack but that has been always installed in earlier versions as well. About the only thing I can think of doing different is that lately I've been genning worlds with higher population caps and loads of historical figures.

Now that I've started paying attention to it, it's very common. In every migration wave there are couple of dwarves who have a phantom relation or two. There are nobles as well, listed as having no offices, bedrooms and so on.

It isn't actually affecting anything but I wonder if it starts to eat into FPS if the game has to take all these extra dwarves into account? Just how many of them are lurking in that northwestern corner?

[Shonai_Dweller]

No mods, only non-standard thing is dfhack but that has been always installed in earlier versions as well. About the only thing I can think of doing different is that lately I've been genning worlds with higher population caps and loads of historical figures.

Now that I've started paying attention to it, it's very common. In every migration wave there are couple of dwarves who have a phantom relation or two. There are nobles as well, listed as having no offices, bedrooms and so on.

It isn't actually affecting anything but I wonder if it starts to eat into FPS if the game has to take all these extra dwarves into account? Just how many of them are lurking in that northwestern corner?

Off-site relations is perfectly normal, but zoom should be disabled (it is in mine and I play with massive populations). Must be a Dfhack thing. Try asking in that thread, see if anyone recognises the issue.

(Also upload a save to dffd, someone might be able to work out what's going on from that)

[Staalo]

Thanks, I posted a question to the DFHack thread.

[rawrcakes]

This is usually even lower that Hell, so obviously no one is actually at that position.

Hey, it could be Urist McMarried's mother in law.

As for the announcements of noble positions of other sites - I've had this too, but I didn't really look into it too much. Could it be your parent civilization, or other offshoots of that civilization which you have diplomatic relations to?

[lethosor]

Replying from the DFHack thread:

In short, I can access the information of some dwarves who are not residents in my fort by selecting (v)iew in some citizens' relationships screen. (snip)

I thought you were referring to the longstanding vanilla quirk where dead dwarves' information can be accessed in this way. Upon reading this thread, that's not the case. At any rate, I'm fairly certain this isn't due to DFHack, although we can use DFHack to diagnose it somewhat.

Just to confirm, by "not actually citizens", you mean they're not visible at all in any unit list besides relationships (i.e. they're not listed under 'u'), right?

The zooming behavior is strange. What do you see in the DFHack console if you run ":lua ~unit.pos" with one of these units selected in the relationship list?

Was this save created in 0.44.12 or an earlier version? Run "devel/save-version" just to be sure.

Might be just your zoom is broken

This behavior is actually fairly typical for off-map objects. An "invalid" position is usually represented as (-30000,-30000,-30000), which DF thankfully adjusts to (0,0,0) when zooming to it, and that's the location being described here (bottom z-level, top left).

I am curious why you jumped to this being a DFHack issue, though - have you seen something like this that's DFHack-related? There hasn't been much research done for the new stuff in 0.44.12 (besides necessary stuff like added professions), so it's not possible for any (official) DFHack tools to be messing with it directly (indirectly is admittedly another matter).

[Staalo]

Just to confirm, by "not actually citizens", you mean they're not visible at all in any unit list besides relationships (i.e. they're not listed under 'u'), right?

The zooming behavior is strange. What do you see in the DFHack console if you run ":lua ~unit.pos" with one of these units selected in the relationship list?

Was this save created in 0.44.12 or an earlier version? Run "devel/save-version" just to be sure.

Correct, these phantom relations aren't visible in fortress mode unit lists. They are actual existing relatives for these dwarves though, and can be seen in a Legends dump, shown living their lives happily in some other settlement.

It appears that save/quit and then loading the save again turns these relatives back into ordinary off-site dwarves (shown in white) in relationship lists. I'll have to wait for the next migrant wave to try that lua command.

All these forts I've seen this happening in were genned in .44.12.

[Shonai_Dweller]

.
I am curious why you jumped to this being a DFHack issue, though - have you seen something like this that's DFHack-related? There hasn't been much research done for the new stuff in 0.44.12 (besides necessary stuff like added professions), so it's not possible for any (official) DFHack tools to be messing with it directly (indirectly is admittedly another matter).
 

Op mentioned it happens in multiple fortresses, and he's not using any mods besides having dfhack installed. Since this doesn't happen in vanilla DF, I suggested checking if it's a Dfhack thing and also uploading a save. If it's a known Dfhack issue, someone like you could just say so (it isn't, Ok). What, you would just post a bug report and not mention Dfhack at all?

The last time I recall a zoom issue being mentioned was the off-centre zoom problem caused by TWBT.

[Staalo]

The zooming behavior is strange. What do you see in the DFHack console if you run ":lua ~unit.pos" with one of these units selected in the relationship list?

Ok, now I got another migrant wave, and yes indeed, gem cutter Ingish Twistbolts has a supernatural connection to his uncle Inod Channelburn, mayor of faraway mountain halls Canyonmet.

I ran the lua command and DFHack spat out these coordinates:

<coord: 0x191023060>
x                          = 0
y                          = 0
z                          = 0

So it looks like the "invalid position" you mentioned.

EDIT: This is the thoughts screen of Inod Channelburn:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Notable thing here is that there is no mention of his arrival date to my fortress and no membership of my group (The Hammers of Sculpture). This pic was taken right after his nephew Ingish migrated to my fort, so there aren't many thoughts or changes yet.

In other forts I've noticed that some phantom relatives were getting distracted as the time went by. That probably means the game is expending cycles to track at least something on these dwarves.

[mikekchar]

I wonder if it's a possible overflow on some kind of id.  OP said that there were a larger number of hist figs than normal.   Possibly, more than the system can handle???  So for example, if there are over 32,767 histfigs it might overflow a 16 bit signed int.  Absolute wild assed guess of course!

[PatrikLundell]

Nope,
"int32_t id;
:
int32_t hist_figure_id;
int32_t hist_figure_id2;" from the generated file unit.h, so you'd need 2 billion to get an overflow (but it IS signed...).

[Jacko13]

Not sure if this is the same thing, but I noticed two kinds of change of status announcement in my most recent fort: one where an off site location I had captured with a squad changed leadership within my civilisation and is no longer directly linked to me; another where people in my fort have relations to other sites where political leadership changes and I get an announcement that sometimes results in gaining a new noble that lives in my fort but has a title from elsewhere.