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Author Topic: What is a "decent meal"?  (Read 15467 times)

Fleeting Frames

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2018, 12:13:11 pm »

Nature raiding is neat idea. For now, you can use adventurers and retired fort immigrants carrying what they were hauling when fortress was retired.

Saiko Kila

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2018, 07:49:41 am »

I haven't had problems with making rice wine. It's made from Rice Plants, while the seeds are called only Rice (and can't be brewed), according to the UI in my fortress (I don't have any Rice Wine at the moment, though, but Rice Plant is marked by the UI as Brewable, and I've had a fortress where I did at least once have every kind of booze on the wiki it the same time). Rice is ANY_TROPICAL according to the wiki.

I mentioned biome of rice, because I thought it could be the reason I can't plant it. But I don't know why I can't plant it. Rice doesn't appear in my list of plants in the farm plot, even though plants like sliver barbs or sun berries appear. Rice bought from merchants can't be milled, can't be brewed, and can't be planted (maybe its GMO). This particular world was created in v0.44.10, maybe there was or is a bug of some kind, though the RAWs for rice seem to be identical between v0.44.10 and v0.44.12.

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Banana beer can only be produced from elven imports because of a bug that causes "trees" that don't produce wood to never appear in an embark even if it should. Hacking Banana to produce wood allows it to appear in suitable embarks, though.

But what if you elves don't bring bananas? You looking for another embark?

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Mead can be used for cooking, but the DFHack interface for it doesn't support it, possibly because it's produced from honey via a reaction rather than through normal brewing of a plant. I believe my script can use mead, though, although I haven't been able to verify it. I haven't tried to set up a use of it the "normal" way (that's mikekchar's domain...).

I'm a "micromanager", so manually setting input is enough for me. Maybe it would be hard if I had access to all alcohol related plants, but as it happens, I have only about 15 alcohol types on average, and peak at 20. So my way is to use ALT+S to set the input in the kitchen job, then chosen alcohol in the fourth slot (which will give name to the roast), another plentiful alcohol in the third slot (for quantity), and optionally other plentiful items in the second or first slots (tallow, meat from a giant animal, quarry bushes). This way I often gets stack of 50-80 roasts containing and named after a single alcohol. It would be a fraud in real life (like liquor chocolates which contain only 1% of liquor), but dwarves like that.

The underlying problem is lack of access to the ingredients, i.e. alcohols or their components.

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A problem is that elves bring only fruit, which means they leave out berries (such a Sun Berries, should they have access to Good biomes). Since I embark in a good savage embark (with a slice of evil for Gutter Cruor and Glumprong) I typically don't have any problem with this one.

Well, my dwarves want 78 alcohols. The game contains 77 of them, the missing one is bumblebee mead. But a single alcohol is wanted by maximum of ten dwarves, and a minimum of one. (the only one wanted by ten is turnip wine, I suppose they are more like gnomes than dwarves). Since I have at most 20 of them, and only rarely, I won't be able to fulfil their needs this way.

I think that your goal to have every alcohol is very ambitious, but it's somehow which is hardly possible without careful selection of embark place (to get many different biomes), luck and some modding. There seems to be a limit of species of plants available. For example I would expect whip vine in a savage biome, but I get it about half the time.

It's most impressive if you are able to achieve production of all required alcohols.

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I've considered whether there's a need/use for a script that would replace specific food preferences with the generic animal one (i.e. cow, rather than cow heart) matching what the UI displays, and a vermin one with a randomly selected real creature, and possibly add a random food preference if the number of food preferences is zero.

Is it possible to have preference for animal and not for a part of it at all?

I've got only one dwarf with no food/drink (or any other) preferences. It is a hillock dwarf, the first one obtained from hillocks. All other 357 dwarves have one alcohol preference, and sometimes other food preferences, but not alcohol. So the only dwarf without preferences is certainly a bug, and normally all creatures have one alcohol preference, and random number of other food/non-alcohol drinks preferences, if any.

If I were making script adding preferences, I would maybe omit dwarves who do not have need to eat decent meal, and would certainly not add impossible meals (which could be tricky, maybe choose from something which already is in the fortress instead of total randomness?). The one dwarf with no preferences I got does have such a need, and it can never be fulfilled of course, but still is happy enough.

I have to admit that I've never run a fortress with more than about 120 dwarfs.  I think the needs system in general would make it impossible to satisfy 350 dwarfs in just about anything.  However, there are special challenges for a large fortress like that.

When I look at my dwarfs, about 80% of them have either a food *or* a drink that is obtainable.  20% have all foods/drinks that are unobtainable.  The order screen from the dwarf caravan is crucial -- you have to order ahead of time to ensure that you get as much as you can.  And then for fruits, you have to trade with the elves.  Living in a biome that grows many plants is helpful too.   You should also try to get as much livestock as possible for making various cheeses -- again, for some animals order from the dwarfs and for others get what you can from the elves.  You can even grow livestock for meat and catch whatever fish you can get in your biome.
 Finally get various things from the humans.

I think that here is where the luck strikes first - if you had such poor elves as mine, you would curse their race. There's also issue with ordering - I tend to become mountainhome quite quickly. But probably most important is that 10 dwarves can like something unobtainable, while 1 can like your main export wine...

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With a smaller fortress the above is manageable (even without scripts) because it's all about setup.  You start with 7 dwarfs and you make sure that you have access to as much food as possible for them.  Then as you get migrants, you have to keep improving your setup.  It takes hours (like everything in DF), but once you have it set up, there isn't that much you need to do.  However, with 350 dwarfs (especially if you are just starting to set it up now), then you are in for a world of hurt.   I even limit my migrants to 10 or so per year so I have time to set up everything for their needs.

I agree that script is not needed in smaller fort, if you care about some micromanaging (as I do), but my point is also that you need some luck in addition to work. I have nothing against more work with setup personally.

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The other problem with a really large fortress is that you are probably going to want multiple kitchens, multiple farms, multiple breweries, etc, etc.  It's going to cover a large area.  I think there is considerable possibility that even if you make all the food you need, you won't easily be able to store your food in a small enough area that the dwarfs will search for the food they want.  Or if you do, it won't be possible to get the distribution to the kitchens right so that you can hack the production methods.

One kitchen is enough for this number of dwarves (I have two kitchens, but they often are unoccupied, and roasts are what buys me iron and steel). As for still, I had to make a fourth one after including alcohols in meals, though two working full time and one part-time are generally enough for drinks if I don't care about their type too much. For storage I use quantum stockpiles.

Farming would be harder if I had access to more seeds, but for general food and alcohol production 10 farms 7 tiles each seem sufficient. I added 5 more for rare alcohols. Don't have more seeds. I also have gathering zones (mostly for fruit), it also fulfils need for wander.

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So I can definitely see that for your fortress it's probably going to be very difficult or impossible to fulfil their food needs.  That doesn't mean it's impossible to satisfy the majority of food needs in general, though.

I made some statistics with my population, and it seems that:
~19% of dwarves have access to their favourite alcohol (including these made from entirely imported ingredients)
~10% of dwarves do not have a need to eat decent meals (they still have good thought after eating it)
~10% of dwarves do not have a need to drink alcohol (they still have good thought after drinking)
One alcohol is favoured by 1-10 dwarves, with 4.5 being avarage (this is for 350+ dwarves).

All except one of not needing decent meals also don't need alcohol, officially. One doesn't have to drink, but has to eat.

I have bad luck with alcohols needed, because the most produced are below the average request level, except dwarven rum and alcohol from potato. But for instance this potato alcohol (I named it vodka) is as much favoured as mead, which is more hard to obtain in large number (there are dwarves who love honey).

There are 78 possible needs in regard to alcohol, with one impossible to make (bumblebee mead), and several rather restricted. Some of these restrictions are from bugs, when it's impossible to culture needed plants, some are bad luck (merchant's and own biomes), and some are by design (limited number of plants in a biome).

I buy almost every plant, and most foods, except those I make on site. I admit that my elves are the worst possible, with very poor choice of both plants and animals (they like to bring domesticated animals like llamas or duck instead of cool stuff, and crappy plants), but merchants of humans and dwarves seem standard. So from these numbers I'd say that is impossible to fulfil needs of most, unless lucky (if they  like dwarven ale all, or something other easy to acquire), though probably bigger fort makes this harder.
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scourge728

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2018, 11:27:49 am »

If bumblebee mead doesn't actually exist but is still a preference, then that should probably be added to bug tracker if it isn't already

Saiko Kila

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2018, 12:36:56 pm »

If bumblebee mead doesn't actually exist but is still a preference, then that should probably be added to bug tracker if it isn't already

It was added multiple times years ago (in 2011 mostly), and for certain reason all these are marked as resolved. Bumblebee mead cannot be made because you can't use them in artificial hive (no tag). Which is supposedly intentional. And being intentional it was marked as resolved...

Here is one of these bug with Toady's explanation:
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4003
I won't say that I understand this rationale.

One solution is to just remove mead and other materials (honey, jelly) from bumblebee RAW, but this is still modding.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2018, 02:40:34 pm »

@Saiko Kila:

Bumblebee mead: If I understand the rationale correctly, it was that it doesn't matter that the mead making reaction doesn't work for bumblebee honey as you can't get bumblebee honey to fuel that reaction. If so, it has no relation to food preferences for bumblebee mead (or honey, for that matter). In food preferences case it's really a matter of preferences for things that don't exist (which includes vermin body parts), and I don't know if you can actually make Dwarven milk (I've never seen a purring maggot anywhere).
A somewhat related, but less important, issue is that you can obtain impossible leather from the dwarven caravan (I very much doubt you can make cave fish leather in a fortress, but you can usually order if from the mountainhome).

Rice: Have you checked that you haven't got a multi biome embark and that your farm plots happen to be in the wrong one (if you use DFHack http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160856.msg7194572#msg7194572 could be used to find out)?

Manual cooking interface: Well, Australian Meat Pies are required to contain at least 2, or possibly 5% (I don't quite remember) meat...
Another thing the DFHack interface can't set up is specific kinds of eggs (you can specify egg, but not the species), but it's possible to do it if you access the kitchen directly with a script or gui/gm-editor. All that's needed is to set the mat_index to the correct animal (my first attempt resulted in creepy crawler eggs, rather than peafowl eggs, but when corrected, the first ingredient fetched (the one I hacked to see if it would work as a solid) was peafowl eggs.

Bananas: I hack bananas to yield wood and I hack all surface biomes to contain all eligible plants and animals... This means it's only a matter of time before they show up in my embark (which is carefully created [and hacked] to contain 9 biomes, although only 6 is needed to get all boozable plants).

Animal preferences: Yes, if you look carefully (and use a script to see any difference at all, of course), you ought to have a fair number of cases where only the animal is listed. It's certainly the case with fish. Replacing the mattype with -1 results in the animal in general, rather than a specific part. If scripting around bugged preferences I guess you could always add booze from one of the underground crops, as that should always be available as an easy setting, with a correction setting just replacing impossible choices with possible ones, without regards for how hard they are to fulfill. Taking what's available (beyond the defaults) into consideration would require you to determine what you mean by "available": is it "might be present in one of the biomes of the embark", "stuff that currently grows on the embark", "stuff that happen to be in the inventory at the moment", or something else (and note that I haven't even mentioned animals, but you could consider current livestock, as well as potentially migrating animals [including and/or excluding ones that can be hunted but not domesticated]).
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Miles_Umbrae

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2018, 06:01:05 pm »

*Trying to imagine how a dorf would manage to acquire a taste for something like Bumblebee-brains or other such practically "impossible" ingredients*
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2018, 04:52:44 pm »

Problem with picking from stuff dwarf has eaten is that it'll probably be most common stuff, thus making that preference both common among such dwarves and easy to fulfil. I don't think that's intended..."Rare but theoretically possible" seems about right, so something which can grow/appear but fortress doesn't currently own?

Small correction for booze, only 5, not 6 biomes - Tropical Dry Broadleaf, Tropical Savanna, Tropical Grassland, Temperate Grassland, and any wetland (and the wetland and one tropical plain could be done with just seeds from trade w/o soil, provided there's suitable air biome.)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 04:54:28 pm by Fleeting Frames »
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OmahaMH

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2018, 10:08:02 am »

So reading this thread makes me sad.  It seems that having my cook work hard to make meals from the sundry meat products produced by my livestock industry and the various food that I import is not actually making my dwarves happy and may actually be contributing to their bottomless depression.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 10:29:25 am by OmahaMH »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2018, 11:58:35 am »

@Fleeting Frames: I stand corrected. I use 6 biomes for farm plots, but the desert one is definitely not required.

So reading this thread makes me sad.  It seems that having my cook work hard to make meals from the sundry meat products produced by my livestock industry and the various food that I import is not actually making my dwarves happy and may actually be contributing to their bottomless depression.
Making lavish meals definitely does not contribute to depression, but it might be fairly ineffective in negating it, but it might have a small effect in that the limited amount of desired stuff you do have gets multiplied by about 4 if you make lavish meals (as those take 4 ingredients, although all of them can be the same, and you can also end up with both of the only desired ingredients in the same one).
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OmahaMH

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2018, 12:51:47 pm »

Is a cooked meal, even with 4 ingredients, is still one "food unit" that a dwarf will eat fully in a single serving, and mood impact aside, doesn't leave him fuller (i.e. needs to come back to eat sooner) than just eating one raw plumper, right?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 04:17:47 pm by OmahaMH »
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feelotraveller

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2018, 05:00:48 pm »

That's right.  However you get cooked meals equal to the stack sizes of all ingredients added together.  (So if your ingredients are plump helmet, plump helmet, plump helmet, plump helmet you will have will have 4 x plump helmet roast, so it still feeds 4 dwarfs...)

Don't have the expectation that you can satisfy the food desires of all your dwarfs all the time and you are golden.  There are many levers to pull and this is just one of them.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2018, 02:22:15 pm »

Rice: Have you checked that you haven't got a multi biome embark and that your farm plots happen to be in the wrong one (if you use DFHack http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160856.msg7194572#msg7194572 could be used to find out)?

I used your script to check it out - turns out I don't have any tropical biome. So no rice for me, as well as no many other plants. I was hoping there's no more need for specific biome when I saw plants from evil/good alignments, and plants from tropical biomes (in real life) in the planting menu, but then I realised that the alignment isn't considered when biome checks are made, and that some tropical plants are not tropical in DF (and vice versa, like flax or maize).

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Manual cooking interface: Well, Australian Meat Pies are required to contain at least 2, or possibly 5% (I don't quite remember) meat...
And they are still named "meat"? I suppose I know what business the writer of these laws was involved in...

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Another thing the DFHack interface can't set up is specific kinds of eggs (you can specify egg, but not the species), but it's possible to do it if you access the kitchen directly with a script or gui/gm-editor. All that's needed is to set the mat_index to the correct animal (my first attempt resulted in creepy crawler eggs, rather than peafowl eggs, but when corrected, the first ingredient fetched (the one I hacked to see if it would work as a solid) was peafowl eggs.

For things like eggs I prefer that dwarves eat it themselves. Assuming they can, I don't have any dwarves with needs for eggs. One dwarf wants "feather tree yolk", that's closest to the egg they need.

Actually, I've checked for needs for some common farm animals I have (like pigs, horses, chickens, turkeys or cows), and to my surprise no one seems to need any of these animals or their parts as food - except milk or cheese. And only guy likes to eat dogs (a spleen to be exact).

For comparison I have at least four guys each who love anchovies, moghoppers, herrings, hakes, seahorses, sailfin mollies, mackerels or soles. I haven't checked all, but it seems that water vermin is handled as whole creatures (as it should be), but land vermin (like moghoppers here) are treated as source of meat, and very specific part of them is needed (like "moghopper stomach tissue"). Also surprisingly large number of people like parts of giant animals, 65 dwarves like 65 different parts of giant animals... (I didn't even know that giant ticks have gizzards, I think they are needed to crush giant erythrocytes.)

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Bananas: I hack bananas to yield wood and I hack all surface biomes to contain all eligible plants and animals... This means it's only a matter of time before they show up in my embark (which is carefully created [and hacked] to contain 9 biomes, although only 6 is needed to get all boozable plants).

All plants including trees?

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Animal preferences: Yes, if you look carefully (and use a script to see any difference at all, of course), you ought to have a fair number of cases where only the animal is listed. It's certainly the case with fish.

Yeah, that's the one I noticed. I was curious what part of fish they want, but no-one wanted anything specific. Which makes this particular need quite easy if the caravans are coming.

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Replacing the mattype with -1 results in the animal in general, rather than a specific part. If scripting around bugged preferences I guess you could always add booze from one of the underground crops, as that should always be available as an easy setting, with a correction setting just replacing impossible choices with possible ones, without regards for how hard they are to fulfill. Taking what's available (beyond the defaults) into consideration would require you to determine what you mean by "available": is it "might be present in one of the biomes of the embark", "stuff that currently grows on the embark", "stuff that happen to be in the inventory at the moment", or something else (and note that I haven't even mentioned animals, but you could consider current livestock, as well as potentially migrating animals [including and/or excluding ones that can be hunted but not domesticated]).

I suppose that counting both inventory and history of eating (which is no help in case of roasts) should be enough to have a great variability. I would also add animals and plants present, animals from home civ, though it would probably be needed to account for their edible status (like sapients who are not edible, or magma critters). But this would be based on my fort, where there are lots of food (just not the one needed). Maybe this list would be too short in a fresh embark with seven dorfs. In any way, testing would be required if it isn't worse.

Problem with picking from stuff dwarf has eaten is that it'll probably be most common stuff, thus making that preference both common among such dwarves and easy to fulfil. I don't think that's intended..."Rare but theoretically possible" seems about right, so something which can grow/appear but fortress doesn't currently own?

Isn't it the point to be easy to fulfil? The current requirements are not hard, they are impossible without hacking...

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Small correction for booze, only 5, not 6 biomes - Tropical Dry Broadleaf, Tropical Savanna, Tropical Grassland, Temperate Grassland, and any wetland (and the wetland and one tropical plain could be done with just seeds from trade w/o soil, provided there's suitable air biome.)

...as seen in this example. How often one embarks naturally in place with five or six so different biomes? Or any six biomes, for that matter. I could hardly find such place in my world.

Still, anything which could be brought by merchants (which may be hard to find or not, I'm not sure yet), plus growing or potentially showing up locally, plus domesticated plants/animals of your own civ should be variable enough. And of course, no specific parts, at least till the DF interface won't start showing them. As for alcohols, if the source plants can be brought and planted, but this may be tricky.

Maybe two modes of actions (easy and sure, and adventurous and uncertain) would be needed to fulfil needs of all gamers.
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Starver

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2018, 03:02:47 pm »

Problem with picking from stuff dwarf has eaten is that it'll probably be most common stuff, thus making that preference both common among such dwarves and easy to fulfil. I don't think that's intended..."Rare but theoretically possible" seems about right, so something which can grow/appear but fortress doesn't currently own?
I was thinking perhaps of a straw poll of 'product' available to the site biome (including quantities available from traders via whatever algorithm it is that populates a Caravan carry-on, perhaps sum a few iterations to get a representative distribution), rendering live trade animals down to their butcherable components, and then choose from between the 1st and 2nd percentile* of frequency to be 'challenging' or below the 1st percentile (but without zero-count products anywhere in that count) to be 'annoying'.

The same could happen with other preferences (rock-types seen in a geological 'survey' of the site, plus likely caravanised ones, similar processes for other materials, and goods) so that there's justification for a dwarf having experienced the thing they have arrived with a preference for, above all other things experienced.

(Newborns might be best to develop from a blank slate, maybe spawning preferences over time, or else epigenetically/uterine-environmentally 'picking up' the morphic resonance of practical choices during gestation. Maybe sample, in the case of foods, the mother's diet (possible diet? - maybe over-iterated of all possible choices that can be deconstructed, rather than strictly just the actual intake) and use that to generate their postpartum ingrained preferences. This would mean that if you over-supply cow-brain meals to a cow-brain-obsessed mother, because you're particularly good at getting cow-brains, this food-type sits well above the range which for the developing child is 'not common' and forces you to deal with another (practical but not so over-provisioned) preference in its stead.)


Or I'm sure there's other ways, but that's one direction to mull over.


* Or equivalent method, like straight ranking and rejecting all items above the median, then all items below the median of this new list?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2018, 04:23:45 am »

@Saiko Kila:

I think I've seen a DF natural (i.e. not hacked) 3*3 embark with 6 biomes once, and ones with 5 biomes a small number of times. They're very rare, though.

Savage/evil/good plants: As far as I know, all the ones you can grow on farm plots lack a requirement for that particular environment, as well as any biome ties at all, which means that as long as you can get the seeds, you can plant them in any biome that supports farming. However, I've never seen humies bring Sliver Barb, and I don't think I've seen them bring Sun Berries either.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone have a preference for eggs, but I've been able to hack such a preference in (without seeing if it actually took effect).

Eggs, fish, and raw fish all lack the kind of internal structure (other) animals and plant have, so they can only be preferred as the whole items. Eggs are particular in that the actually have a different internal structure in the form of shell, white, and yolk.
It can also be noted that Feather Tree Eggs are bugged and cannot be acquired, but eleven caravans litter the trade depot with Feather Tree Egg Yolk (which cannot be picked up and used).

My biome hacking includes trees, yes. For some reason it tends to take a few years for saplings of most temperate fruit trees to appear, but since they only take 3 years to mature, it's not a big deal.

Ideally, migrant (and petitioner) preferences ought to be based on their background, which means it ought to be based on what was available in the places they've lived (which ought to include what's available via trade). I agree preferences ought to develop over time, with newborn being blank slates, but if so, the process ought to be capable of blocking stuff exposed to (i.e. I've only ever eaten Plump Helmet, and I don't like it and will never do so. Please let me try other things! Hm, Cave Wheat. Novel, but no, I won't grow attached to that either). However, currently newborn are fully formed with preferences, views, personality traits, etc.

Edit: Looking more into preferences, I see no whole creature preferences in my fortress, except for vermin (moghopper) and vermin fish, while there is a preference for Pike Kidney Tissue (and looking at the raws for Pike shows it's a creature, not vermin).
I've also found that mead isn't actually booze cookable.

Edit 2: Is it known what the size limits for butchering and slaughtering are, and if there's more than just bones that won't appear if the creature is too small to yield anything but skull and meat? I'm fairly sure a Magpie is too small to be butchered (to satisfy a need for Magpie Gut), but would a Buzzard (which appears to be a borderline species that sometimes yields just a skull and meat, and sometimes a more complete result) produce a Gut part in either or both cases?

Edit 3: I've found that the "[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]" token from the raws can be accessed from the creature raw to determine if a creature is labelled as butcherable (which showed that the Magpie in Edit 2 is marked as [NON_BUTCHERABLE]).

A marginally updated food_needs script that flags the impossible items I know of as impossible (butcher products from creatures that can't be butchered, bumblebee honey/mead, feather tree egg parts).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 09:18:50 am by PatrikLundell »
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therahedwig

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Re: What is a "decent meal"?
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2018, 10:48:03 am »

Here's the butcher-results science thread.

As for things like sun berries and sliver barb, afaik, those have been known not to appear in trade, as good/evil aligned biome features are supossed to be a sort of, er, reward for hanging out in those biomes to begin with. (I wonder if that is going to survive the myth worldgen changes, because I am pretty sure good/evil won't.)

I am also wondering whether the bug isn't 'dwarves don't consider cooked meals decent anymore' rather than 'dwarves' favourite food is too specific'. I mean, it makes more sense that dwarves would prefer cooked meals, but will have that need satisfied, but will also satisfy it with their favourite ingredient even if raw, than having it only be satisfied with their favourite ingredient...
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