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Author Topic: Animal people and multicultural fortress  (Read 798 times)

DauntlessGolem

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Animal people and multicultural fortress
« on: November 09, 2018, 02:09:36 am »

Alright I think I've managed to crack the code on getting animal people into your fort more consistently. I've always noticed in legends that in savage worlds, elves have loads more animal people than anyone else, but the problem is that elven civs rarely send visitors to Dwarven ones. However human civs can't stop sending visitors (presumably to wipe out the dwarves with FPS death)

I kept generating harshly savage worlds until I finally got one where an elven civ built itself up and expanded, and then got demolished by a human civ. The result was a human civ with waaaay more animal people than it should have. I ran a rew tests and I'm getting more animal people visitors than I've ever gotten before (and I've been trying to do this since visitors were a thing.)

Of course, it's my luck all the animal people were egg layers so a breeding program was going to be far to finicky, but I was content with the rate I was getting them.

I still think using DFhack with the 'tweak makeown' on wild populations still functions better to anyone who REALLY wants to do multicultural fortresses, but if you want it vanilla, you gotta Gen a few worlds to get the right one.

(Side note: I got a one humped camel woman and she kept not eating, even getting to the point of starving, but every time she fell asleep, a dwarf would feed her. I don't know what was happening, but my only thought is that she had the [GRAZER] tag still)
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Animal people and multicultural fortress
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2018, 05:24:43 am »

Hm. Interesting and relatively doable with PSV. While I've previously managed to build the world's only human town to have 1/3 animal people, they still refused to come, so I've only seen few of them.

*goes to test* *elves conquer humans*
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 05:29:10 am by Fleeting Frames »
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Animal people and multicultural fortress
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2018, 05:51:27 am »

There can be also animal-men which don't appear in the list of populated sites, but I don't know what process creates them, or causes them to become part of population. I had such one in the beginning of the fifth year of my fort - Wolf Man scholar. Unfortunately he was killed by a beak dog besieger. Later I checked that he came from a nearby city of other dwarf civ (where he settled some 17 years prior), but this city doesn't show wolf men in Legends export made in the beginning of the game, even though he was a member.

Also his Civ ID was pointing to the city government (not the civilisation as usual), while his Pop ID was -1.

So such export of data can be unreliable. Still, according to them, in my world animal men are almost exclusively in forest retreats, except one dwarven place, and one dark fortress.

Regarding the camel men, yes, they have [STANDARD_GRAZER] tags. This can be modded off by changing the template for animal_person variation, to remove this tag (like for example mount or pet tags are removed).
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Animal people and multicultural fortress
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2018, 06:54:12 am »

Hm, I shall have to ask for save, for my curiosity - while I can get the conquerings, the resultants are majority humans:

||
All humans, till first caravan. even with additional rotation induced by flagging forest flag on visitor.

I guess I'll try including large biomes as sources next.

DauntlessGolem

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Re: Animal people and multicultural fortress
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2018, 11:11:16 am »

How would I check what site they came from? I am fairly sure they didn't come from a Dwarven civ, as the only one on this world is in the arctic, cut off from the rest of the world, and is getting kept in check by megabeasts. I would like to share the save, would I just link it in a Google drive?

Also, just because I realize I didn't make it clear, I'm just getting more animal men than usual, averaging one a year. Most of the visitors are humans
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 11:14:13 am by DauntlessGolem »
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Grand Sage

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Re: Animal people and multicultural fortress
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2018, 11:42:04 am »

i think it would say in there thoughts screen, reading something about them beeing a menber/former member of a group. that group can then be back-tracked to a site. It might also list the civ in there thoughts screen.
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feelotraveller

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Re: Animal people and multicultural fortress
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2018, 02:48:41 pm »

I would like to share the save, would I just link it in a Google drive?

Uploading it to Dwarf Fortress File Depot (DFFD) http://dffd.bay12games.com/index.php would be the best.   ;)  Although Google drive or Dropbox etc. would also work.  Include the entire 'RegionX' folder.
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Bumber

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Re: Animal people and multicultural fortress
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2018, 08:00:20 pm »

Does this work if we conquer the site ourselves?
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Animal people and multicultural fortress
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2018, 04:38:31 pm »

Ah, one a year is...Not exactly the flood I was imagining. More like what I've seen in better forts myself. Getting breeding pairs is an issue with that rate.

DauntlessGolem

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Re: Animal people and multicultural fortress
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2018, 01:46:41 am »

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14108

Here is another save where I got an elven civ to get demolished. Test to see if you have more luck than me, the animal people they have aren't egg layers. I've done some further testing with files like this and it varies so much. sometimes there's a flood of Animal people with one save and sometimes it's a slow burn. But if you're going fore a workable population, its always a slow burn, haha.
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CaptainArchmage

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Re: Animal people and multicultural fortress
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2018, 09:02:02 pm »

I still think using DFhack with the 'tweak makeown' on wild populations still functions better to anyone who REALLY wants to do multicultural fortresses, but if you want it vanilla, you gotta Gen a few worlds to get the right one.

(Side note: I got a one humped camel woman and she kept not eating, even getting to the point of starving, but every time she fell asleep, a dwarf would feed her. I don't know what was happening, but my only thought is that she had the [GRAZER] tag still)

Multicultural fortresses happen organically. The original reason why fortresses were not multicultural is that, for about ten years since the first public release of dwarf fortress, the only migrants besides special characters (like elf queens or goblin kings) were dwarves. Non-dwarven characters just weren't handled properly.

It's been common for me to get giant panda man scholars showing up to my libraries and so on. I haven't noticed much difficulty in getting several animal person visitors, but not all submit applications for permanent residency. Then maybe I use different worldgen methods - usually I crank everything to the max except for civilization count (else the number of rejections is painfully high) and world size (I used to do large worlds until DF2012 came out... not any more).

Also I believe there was some change to remove the grazer tag from animal people where the basic animal person is a grazer, perhaps hardcoded. However, it is possible for some animal people, the change was missed.
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