Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[FantasticDorf]

Desires are both the rod and the carrot to the needs system in my outlining idea suggestion as minature lifetime goals.

As of right now the needs are outset and read off the values, however a subset of desires will instead take up the point of motivation, and these have correlation with the personality & circumstances of the dwarf, plus can be used to roughly decipher what they will likely be doing in their spare time.

If a dwarf has a high need to correct their lonelyness, then a 'desire to make friends' will actively influence and steer their behaviour and they can only have 3 concurrent desires at a given time to stop them pulling themselves all over the place of which they'll choose 1. A well fufilled dwarf might drift onto more mundane tasks or one personality driven obsessive desire, always thinking about eating their favourite kind of decent meal or when to craft or obtain their next favourite object.
Urist is distracted from not spending enough time around friends, urist is distracted from not being around family, Urist is distracted from not making anything recently

Urist desires to make/meet friends, Urist desires to find love/contact family/spend time with the spouse, Urist desires to make a [Bronze][Crossbow]
These desires are a lot more short term & contextual to the dwarves current situation such as whether they already have a spouse + family in the fortress which will push them to go to meeting zones & areas they are in and locate compatible 'mates' over distance similarly to friends walking ontop of their current postion or moving adjacent to ensure they get talked to.

And in other context's desires would also facilitiate some more advanced reactions such as having a transposed desire to 'seek wealth' gained from their greedyness pushing dwarves in modes like adventurer into behavioural patterns, maybe you'll find some gamblers for instance with a desire for wealth playing elaborate card games in the tavern or on the streets committing petty robbery. All towards their current needs and objectives. You could probably walk up to them and ask what do they want and they'd say

You: Urist, what is it that you want?

Urist: "I want to get rich for my own sake (selfishness or undisclosed ulterior motive), but also I also want to be a great warrior in my heart"

Contrasting the circumstances that pressured them into the current desire right now versus the more idealistic one, though you can probably argue that without securing the funding now by robbing old ladies at the dead of night, this startup adventurer type wouldn't be able to afford his weapons else so it all ties into the long-game with the lifetime goals being the merdian desire

All in all it looks to replicate memory's retention of information by implementing more short term by a similar function if all this data onto 1 unit doesn't become overwhelming.

[GoblinCookie]

Don't we already have this in effect with the focus system?

[FantasticDorf]

Don't we already have this in effect with the focus system?

No, focus only rewards your dwarves for successfully following their needs that are currently bugged to be unfufillable with statistic & reaction bonuses when they enter the focused status. Im not sure where you got this information about focus, being unfocused does the opposite, or if the OP wasn't exactly clear but desires are goals connected to needs more immediately.

Large image of the recent Toady presentation:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To expand a little bit upon this, using the above chart the dwarf may compare certain requisites joining a brainstorm circle below of desires that branch out into objectives funnelling back into their fufillment of the need because doing the activity the desire pokes you to do will eventually fufill the dwarf enough to clear it and desire something else.

The behaviour that will emerge as per the direction of the desire, & the desire's completion will yield more need fufillment than the average set of wanding around doing activities meaning that crafting their favourite object defined by the desire will be more fufilling but can only be acted upon once before having another desire overtake the slot. If the new desire is not very prioritised it might fall by the wayside while the dwarf is currently doing their current activity.

Religious dwarves desire to honor the gods or gods (/express devotion), and this will actively reward the dwarf for that gods field and also pump some additional need fufillment into the others, making it easier to reach their focuses and keep ontop, besides from moving them to a temple; But even while not having a prayer desire active they can pray to clear these needs.

Like i said before with desires, there may be different ways of doing things per the behavioural motivations & deviations. Leaving a offering of cheese in a shrine for instance to clear or preaching to others the goodness of religion being ways to fufill this prayer by proxy.

Important - Ill be taking suggestions for desires you'd like to see, all you need is a title & a descriptor and the rough value it is basd upon, ill add it into the below space. Here's some examples

(Nature -) "Wreak havoc upon the natural world" - Cut down trees.
(Merryment & Joviality) "Be merry with friends" - Join freinds inside a tavern area.

(Merryment & Humor)  "Tell joke infront of a audience" - self explanatory for comedians, needs to be in a public place, dwarf will look and demand the attention of listeners like a performance where the audience will rate them.

(Greed/Ambition) "discover something for the fortress", find a new map feature, such as exploring the caverns, finding new mineral veins & special map events like the subterreanean, downward passages and adamantine spires. - Dorsidorf

[Dorsidwarf]

Something like "discover something for the fortress", where it gets filled++ if they find an expansive cavern/downward passage/magma sea/magma pool/magma pipe/adamantine spire" and filled slightly just for uncovering a new mineral deposit?

[FantasticDorf]

Something like "discover something for the fortress", where it gets filled++ if they find an expansive cavern/downward passage/magma sea/magma pool/magma pipe/adamantine spire" and filled slightly just for uncovering a new mineral deposit?

I can see this being unfufillable though in the long term, but thank you for your contribution i did consider it. May be possible if the dwarf is psuedo aware of remaining map features that aren't discovered, then afterwards the desire is dismissed when they discover one of the prerequisite things they were looking for meaning it won't appear again if everything possible has been discovered.

I think i'll add it anyway, dwarves will be digging too deep because they're dwarves with a lust for treasure + exploration.

[SixOfSpades]

Something like "discover something for the fortress", where it gets filled++ if they find an expansive cavern/downward passage/magma sea/magma pool/magma pipe/adamantine spire" and filled slightly just for uncovering a new mineral deposit?

I can see this being unfufillable though in the long term

Not to mention unfulfillable by literally any dwarf who isn't an active Miner.

[Bumber]

Not to mention unfulfillable by literally any dwarf who isn't an active Miner.

Well, exploring the caverns would work... as long as the cats don't map it out first.

[FantasticDorf]

Something like "discover something for the fortress", where it gets filled++ if they find an expansive cavern/downward passage/magma sea/magma pool/magma pipe/adamantine spire" and filled slightly just for uncovering a new mineral deposit?

I can see this being unfufillable though in the long term

Not to mention unfulfillable by literally any dwarf who isn't an active Miner.

Having experience and the labour enabled may be prequisite also unless like bumber says it's delivered to all dwarves with the objective third hand.

[GoblinCookie]

No, focus only rewards your dwarves for successfully following their needs that are currently bugged to be unfufillable with statistic & reaction bonuses when they enter the focused status. Im not sure where you got this information about focus, being unfocused does the opposite, or if the OP wasn't exactly clear but desires are goals connected to needs more immediately.

I am saying that desires along the lines of your OP are redundant mechanically because the focus system (with the needs) seemingly does the same thing.  You seem to want something between lifetime goals and regular needs, but I don't see why the two taken together don't work fine in combination. 

[FantasticDorf]

I think i explained clearly enough the OP and my response afterwards, and at this injunction without evidence claiming that the needs system is working despite me pointing it and trying to explain both it, and my concept numerous times I don't think you're constructively pursuing this point.

Don't we already have this in effect with the focus system?

No, focus only rewards your dwarves for successfully following their needs that are currently bugged to be unfufillable with statistic & reaction bonuses when they enter the focused status. Im not sure where you got this information about focus, being unfocused does the opposite, or if the OP wasn't exactly clear but desires are goals connected to needs more immediately.

Here's a helpful reference point of people collaborating together to identify and try to fix problems individually having noticed that dwarves feel unfufilled over needs with difficulty getting together to fix them.
- Stress & Pysche: 44.11+  (Read 21942 times)

Which with my suggestion wont be needed so much because dwarves will more readily drift off after latching onto a desire into some AI routines like seeking people related or that they know around the fortress.

Please don't derail the thread.

[GoblinCookie]

I think i explained clearly enough the OP and my response afterwards, and at this injunction without evidence claiming that the needs system is working despite me pointing it and trying to explain both it, and my concept numerous times I don't think you're constructively pursuing this point.

You are just trying to evade the question.  The only part of the focus system that does not work is the bits where there are a shortage of ways to meet the demands, due to the unfinished nature of the game. 

Here's a helpful reference point of people collaborating together to identify and try to fix problems individually having noticed that dwarves feel unfufilled over needs with difficulty getting together to fix them.
- Stress & Pysche: 44.11+  (Read 21942 times)

Which with my suggestion wont be needed so much because dwarves will more readily drift off after latching onto a desire into some AI routines like seeking people related or that they know around the fortress.

Please don't derail the thread.

We already have two systems for desires, the focus system that deals with recurring desires and the lifetime desire system for one-off demands.  You appear to be proposing a third system but I fail to see why everything you are proposing does not simply fit within the framework of one of those two things.  There is no need for a third thing in the game called desires, lifetime goals and focus needs will do the trick alone. 

[Dorsidwarf]

I mean, the lifetime desires system is a janky placeholder anyway, with babies being born to know exactly what they want to do in life and never ever deviating from that goal (and its a coinflip as to whether that goal is in anyway meaningful or might as well read "eat every other dwarf in the universe"), and being satisfied forever if its completed.

[GoblinCookie]

I mean, the lifetime desires system is a janky placeholder anyway, with babies being born to know exactly what they want to do in life and never ever deviating from that goal (and its a coinflip as to whether that goal is in anyway meaningful or might as well read "eat every other dwarf in the universe"), and being satisfied forever if its completed.

No that is not a placeholder, it is a way of saving memory.  A lot of things are generated at birth because it is easier to create one set of large numbers than to have to create two smaller sets of numbers separately.

As I see it, I fail to understand what functionality a separate system of desires on top of focus needs and lifetime goals adds?

[SixOfSpades]

I mean, the lifetime desires system is a janky placeholder anyway, with babies being born to know exactly what they want to do in life and never ever deviating from that goal (and its a coinflip as to whether that goal is in anyway meaningful or might as well read "eat every other dwarf in the universe"), and being satisfied forever if its completed.

True. Ideally, all dwarves should have multiple life goals--they desire to master a skill, and raise a family, and see the world's natural wonders, etc . . . what's generated is the different order in which each dwarf ranks the relative importance of each of these dreams. And the perceived importance of these goals should be roughly in tune with each dwarf's traits/attributes.

Perhaps the single "stress" counter should be broken up into separate "yearning" categories like Security, Companionship, Productivity, Creativity, Comfort, etc. Being well satisfied in one category does not carry over to other the categories, but there are many things (currently called "focus-based needs") that can fulfill each category: A dwarf that has no friends or family can still meet his Companionship quota with lots of positive time with his pet, for instance. Each dwarf places their own value on each of the "yearning" categories (some might love Creativity but not give a damn about Productivity, for example), or perhaps even on each of the individual needs within each category. Certain needs might be part of more than one category, and affect them in different ways: Spending time with one's young children should boost Companionship but perhaps lower Security, as the parent knows that it's her responsibility to feed & protect those kids . . . but later on, when the children have grown to adults, seeing them would raise the mother's Security and Comfort, as now she knows they can feed and protect her if she should ever require it.