Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]

Author Topic: How to return battle system in DF above v.34 - discussion and decisions.  (Read 6812 times)

High_priest_of_Ru

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sacrifice that you might - gain great power!
    • View Profile
Re: How to return battle system in DF above v.34 - discussion and decisions.
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2018, 03:21:13 am »

I've checked recent variants and updated main topic. All the ways we need variant of Sver so i marked this as Basic Way.

Summary:

Undead tags. Nice, but need to choose, which nation should take undead tags, wisely. Especially funny in Fortress mode, in adventure one fun depends on how site generator will make mixed settlements. To make not evil factions ready to fight, we need to modify them by way 4 or way 1.

Ethic. Plays with ethic allows to set started conflicts on the most lethal level, giving a bit chance for opponent to not run from you, but creatures around often don't join fight. If you got enough bad reputation (couple or dozen of kills) skilled warriors (lord guards etc) sometimes will attack you when another guys will run so we need to improve their skills to variant 1 before creating fight.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 03:45:17 am by High_priest_of_Ru »
Logged
We all have a place among the divine. We have only to accept it.

High_priest_of_Ru

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sacrifice that you might - gain great power!
    • View Profile
Re: How to return battle system in DF above v.34 - discussion and decisions.
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2018, 08:26:52 am »

I got wonderful idea, guys.

What about making species for each nation, which is undead and have 1:2 ratio? Then cities will be really filled with fights. If these civs will dash through worldgen.
Logged
We all have a place among the divine. We have only to accept it.

Cathar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Adequate Engraver
    • View Profile
    • My shit
Re: How to return battle system in DF above v.34 - discussion and decisions.
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2018, 08:45:28 am »

You could technically make a full mod about sentient species having discovered the secret of reanimating the dead and using it for labor and warfare. That'd be pretty badass and solve your problem all in one
Logged

High_priest_of_Ru

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sacrifice that you might - gain great power!
    • View Profile
Re: How to return battle system in DF above v.34 - discussion and decisions.
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2018, 09:08:42 am »

You could technically make a full mod about sentient species having discovered the secret of reanimating the dead and using it for labor and warfare. That'd be pretty badass and solve your problem all in one

Yes, i did some experiments about that. Species skilled in necromancy creates undead and they destroy everyone, even allies of summoner^)
Logged
We all have a place among the divine. We have only to accept it.

JesterHell696

  • Bay Watcher
  • [ETHIC:ALL:PERSONAL]
    • View Profile
Re: How to return battle system in DF above v.34?
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2018, 07:10:29 am »

Every situation after Toady's look at the problem will be better than now. We can have different opinions about ideal one - your is a bit casual, mine is a bit hardcore, but both looks satisfying for me. And current situation is not.

I don't see myself as casual gamer but as a hardcore simulationist (GNS Theory), as a simulationist I prioritise the integrity of the simulation over "arcadey" challenges but I would still enjoy DF having challenges and I would love for the game to respond to my characters action to the point that if I go around slaughtering whole villagers that they eventually send the army after me, at first a squad or two but up to hundred's of men if my reputation/threat warrants it.

I'm fine with the game giving me an outright/literally unwinnable scenario if that scenario emerges from the games simulation but would hate such a scenario as "just" a survive as long as you can DF Hardcore/Rouge-like challenge mode thing, players can already set that up with modding and world gen options without altering the background simulation at all.

I see you as a hardcore gamist (GNS Theory), you seem too (IMHO) view DF's simulationist nature as a means to and ends (challenging gameplay) I see the simulation as the ends in and of itself, plus I really want to be able to play as just a farmer, building my house, raising my live stock... basically star dew valley but with more simulation and the chance to be eaten by wolves or a dragon, or as a human blacksmith who searching for the secret of dwarven steel, a combat oriented adventure is the least interesting long term possibility IMHO.


Note: I think Toady One is approaching DF from a Narrativist perspective given his focus on allowing engaging stories.


I get what you mean about a moral system being more realistic but this really is not the issue here. The problem is that villagers don't react at all when you kill their mates right in front of them and even say stuff like "good to see you", let alone fight back. Maybe the old system wasn't realistic but certainly more realistic then the buggy one we got now and it was certainly a lot more engaging when you had to actually deal with consequences for killing or attacking someone.

I agree that the current situation is not ideal but I see it as a stepping stone on the road too the future and I would rather tolerate what is the new normal then regress back to what was just so that combat  in/with villages is more engaging, I definitely think this is something to be fixed before the next big wait.

I would suggest that Toady use the artefact hunters ability to track the player and the new villain groups together so that they can work as a reaction to the player, the "villainous" plot is to kill the PC and involves convincing the king/law maker that the PC is a threat worthy of dispatching the army, at which point the army tracks the player and now you have to deal with a hundred soldiers hunting you down as a consequence of going on a murder spree, I think this would be a lot better quick fix then simply reinstating the previous system.
Logged
"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

sketchesofpayne

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: How to return battle system in DF above v.34 - discussion and decisions.
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2018, 04:25:26 am »

'Travelers' I come across are more likely to attack me or fight back.  Sometimes they will be passive unless you follow them for a while.  Animals are still willing to fight most of the time.

I went on a massacre to test some things.  The inhabitants of the hillock I was in reacted in proportion to the importance of the person I killed.

Killed several peasants/workers and got little reaction (verbal fear but no physical response).
Killed an administrator and a few ran away and one attacked me.
Killed the mayor and more ran away and a couple came running and attacked me.
Killed the baroness consort and the whole crowd around me ran and several came running to attack me.

Often some people would spit at me but wouldn't attack me until I tried to move through their tile.

Does anyone know what it takes to become an 'enemy' of a site or civilization?  I usually play lawful adventurers so I've never had it happen.
Logged

Cathar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Adequate Engraver
    • View Profile
    • My shit
Re: How to return battle system in DF above v.34?
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2018, 07:50:02 am »

Note: I think Toady One is approaching DF from a Narrativist perspective given his focus on allowing engaging stories.

Yes
Logged

Rumrusher

  • Bay Watcher
  • current project : searching...
    • View Profile
Re: How to return battle system in DF above v.34 - discussion and decisions.
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2018, 08:46:55 am »

hmm accidentally took too long to identifying my character and ended up being swarmed by merchants pulling out knives and claim my character is an intruder.
it seems the system works if you make everyone have an murder neutral and civilians an enemies ethics. I think I saw a guard person asking for identification for a kobold near the temples.
Logged
I thought I would I had never hear my daughter's escapades from some boy...
DAMN YOU RUMRUSHER!!!!!!!!
"body swapping and YOU!"
Adventure in baby making!Adv Homes

High_priest_of_Ru

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sacrifice that you might - gain great power!
    • View Profile
Re: How to return battle system in DF above v.34?
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2018, 10:49:54 am »

I would suggest that Toady use the artefact hunters ability to track the player and the new villain groups together so that they can work as a reaction to the player, the "villainous" plot is to kill the PC and involves convincing the king/law maker that the PC is a threat worthy of dispatching the army, at which point the army tracks the player and now you have to deal with a hundred soldiers hunting you down as a consequence of going on a murder spree, I think this would be a lot better quick fix then simply reinstating the previous system.

I'll get you some piece of magic, mate.

This looks like 0.31 version had situation when the player with enough good reputation awakens when surrounded by squad of well armored creatures. Pushhhh!

This WERE the same way you awaits in distant future. And now it's not. I can't even imagine, what you're doing in adventure mode right now. There is no tasks to perform. Building home and growing plant? I can buy cannabis seeds and growing tools to enjoy this experience.

P.S. To the truth, i know, what people do. They are hunting and making angel/demon charges. I mean, people interact with THOSE creatures, which were not changed by last updates.
Logged
We all have a place among the divine. We have only to accept it.

High_priest_of_Ru

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sacrifice that you might - gain great power!
    • View Profile
Re: How to return battle system in DF above v.34 - discussion and decisions.
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2018, 10:52:44 am »

Does anyone know what it takes to become an 'enemy' of a site or civilization?  I usually play lawful adventurers so I've never had it happen.

It takes looking at the top post and made what is inscribed there and then do punishable actions.))) Because real battle in impossible with current morale.
Logged
We all have a place among the divine. We have only to accept it.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]