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Author Topic: Instant death on reclaim  (Read 1438 times)

muldrake

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Instant death on reclaim
« on: December 29, 2019, 08:38:16 pm »

So I had a fortress that fell into ruin through mostly self-inflicted !!FUN!! but the location was pretty nice.

However, every time I try to reclaim it, I just instantly get killed by a single fire imp.  I even equipped everyone with basic skills at archery, shield use, dodging and crossbowman, and embarked with the relevant weapons, and immediately formed a squad with everyone in it, and when the "ambush" happened, immediately set the squad to kill that creature.

Everyone died the instant I unpaused it.

I assume I'm doing something wrong but I've never reclaimed.  I could presumably just dfhack to obliterate the thing but that seems to lack class.
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Bumber

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2019, 08:45:03 pm »

What do you mean "instant death"? Do your dwarves just spontaneously keel over dead as soon as they get near the fire imp, or is that an exaggeration of a bunch of fireballs being flung at them?

Maybe you could try an adventurer.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 08:49:27 pm by Bumber »
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muldrake

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2019, 09:01:46 pm »

Logs indicated a series of fireballs, but it was as instant as I've ever seen.  It took less than a minute of (unpaused) real time and nobody could even pick up equipment before it happened.
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Loam

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2019, 09:16:55 pm »

Less than a minute in fort mode is ample time for a dwarf to burn to death. Fire imps can hurl fireballs very quickly, and without a shield equipped your dwarves are basically toast. Even with shields dwarves have issues pathing where fire is concerned: the fireballs will heat up the surroundings to dangerous levels, and dwarves won't willingly move into spaces that are hot enough to hurt them. This leads to the somewhat mystifying dwarven behavior of standing stoically in one spot while actively on fire, rather than running away or towards a water source, because the surrounding air is "too hot."

Basically, it sounds like your dwarves are getting heated up (if not actively set on fire) to the point where they can't move, but will still take damage from the fire until they die. You aren't by chance finding pools of dwarf grease lying about?

I also suggest an adventurer to deal with the imp. Pathing doesn't cause issues when you're in control. You could also try turning temperature off in the init file, but I don't know if that will stop dwarves from catching fire.
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anewaname

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2019, 10:32:12 pm »

Maybe start with 20 war dogs? Lock the dwarfs in a tunnel if possible, and make a meeting zone for the dogs to travel near the imp?
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NordicNooob

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2019, 05:47:24 pm »

If said fire imp is on the surface, you're definitely gonna have problems, since while fire can be blocked, fire that catches on the ground cannot, and will burn even the most seasoned warriors to death. Avoid the imp (draft everybody, order them to get the heck away, and strike the earth on the edge of the map), and lure it into a close-quarters place underground. Then sic whatever you want on it, I'd suggest 2-4 competent melee warriors with shields.

But again; 30 seconds of real time is a lot of fort time. Remember that your FPS will be a lot higher (and so will time) when you've not got many dwarves. Combat is pretty fast anyways, especially with smaller numbers of foes.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2019, 05:21:30 am »

If you actually made an underground site and it's usable (not filled with water, etc.), I'd modify NordicNoob's advice to pause immediately, draft everyone and DON'T assign any equipment, over clothing (so they keep their clothes and don't spend time equipping stuff from the wagon), and station them inside the fortress. Once there I'd consider equipping them with local stuff, and block/trap the entrance.
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Haytrid

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2019, 11:37:59 am »

I don't ever play adventure mode but can't he build up an adventurer, visit the site, kill the imp, retire the adventurer, then reclaim the site in fortress mode?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2019, 12:09:53 pm »

I don't ever play adventure mode but can't he build up an adventurer, visit the site, kill the imp, retire the adventurer, then reclaim the site in fortress mode?
Loam suggested that, and it sounds sound (although I don't play adventure mode either), especially since the mess happening on reclaim/resume of a fortress will happen regardless of it being delayed a little by an adventurer.
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Sanctume

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2019, 12:52:21 pm »

I would do 2 separate embarks. 

1st 7 with Dodge+3, Discipline+2, Fighter+3 + (Striker/Biter/Kicker+2). 
Buy some weapons to scatter for the next round. 
Set Pause on Load. 
Abandon. 
This should scatter those weapons, and maybe the 14 days will let some of the 1st 7 survive or even kill the imp. 
And at least the imp moves a bit. 

2nd 7 embark to see if the position / situation changes from the first.



muldrake

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2020, 06:50:10 pm »

I don't ever play adventure mode but can't he build up an adventurer, visit the site, kill the imp, retire the adventurer, then reclaim the site in fortress mode?
Loam suggested that, and it sounds sound (although I don't play adventure mode either), especially since the mess happening on reclaim/resume of a fortress will happen regardless of it being delayed a little by an adventurer.

I don't play adventure mode, or at least I didn't before now, so it took a little bit of work, but I got a hero and two companions to the location, and of course, the imps are nowhere to be found.  I think I may try camping there or even building a small house and seeing if they show up when I sleep.  If not, maybe my mere presence has disrupted the ambushing stuff.  In that case, I'll see if I can save/retire there and maybe recruit him if he's there when I show up in fortress mode.

There's no usable fort there because I cleverly drowned it in magma, but there are already a fair number of weapons, armor and other useful items scattered around from the embarks.  Maybe I can somehow block off the area the embarks keep showing up at so it forces it to embark somewhere else instead and buys me time to get them underground.

It's kind of obnoxious.  I've never had any trouble with fire imps before other than the occasional burn injury, maybe because I've always been ready for them by the time I got to the magma sea and, in this case, they're already on the surface.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Instant death on reclaim
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2020, 04:48:23 am »

If your adventurer can build, you ought to be able to build a wall around the source the imps come from (a volcano, I presume), which would make it impossible for them to get out (although I wouldn't say that definitely block them from getting out when you're not at the site (i.e. in between the adventurer retiring and the reclaim).

You could also build a "box" around the location the wagon would appear in. That ought to either have it spawn inside of it, where your dorfs ought to be able to equip themselves with weapons/dig down to start a fortress, or force the wagon to spawn somewhere else.
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