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Author Topic: About your automatic orders...  (Read 971 times)

Sil3nt

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About your automatic orders...
« on: January 21, 2019, 08:26:49 am »


I'm very curious so here i am asking, for those of you entering a mature phase of your fortresses where you must have certain jobs on repeat schedule (like brewing, cooking, processing, shearing, milking ecc) to make things keep going, how many tasks you managed to leave to the new manager orders system and forever forget about it?

Right now i managed to have just a few that works:

- brewing (task on repeat with monthly check if stock is less than 200 drinks)
- bone and wooden bolts (task on repeat with monthly check if stock is less than 10 and raw materials are more than a certain quantity)

I would like to make more tasks automatics, but as long as i understood right now the system doesn't count items stored in Bins, and i don't like to have single stockpiles for every damn thing...
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nimbus25

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2019, 01:37:21 pm »

I think it checks for items in bins, but I use quantum stockpiles for everything (besides food) so I could be wrong

That said, I usually automate plant processing and thread dying with dyed thread being auto-loomed, ore smelting for certain metals I want large amounts of (hematite, tetrahedrite, etc.), as well as shell/bone/etc. craft creation.

I've also explored trying to automate the soap industry, but soap is so rarely used that it's never worth it. With clever stockpile management you might be able to automate empty bag/barrel/bin production too but I've never been successful with that.
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anewaname

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2019, 03:08:31 pm »

A few orders never change (like those for barrels, bins, wheelbarrows, and buckets) since the first year of the fort. Some are not added until the fort has about 100+ dwarfs and then never change.

The job manager does count items in bins except when the bin itself has been tasked by a job, then the contents are unavailable (the bin is being moved or more items are being added to it).

I do not stockpile everything because some items are best left where the dwarfs dropped them.

What are some of the tasks you want to automate and, roughly how would you prefer to structure them?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 03:12:05 pm by anewaname »
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Bumber

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2019, 07:58:45 pm »

Code: (Legend) [Select]
< is "Less than"
<= is "At most"
> is "Greater than"
>= is "At least"
# are comments

Code: (Food and Drink) [Select]
brew drink from plant (5) #Production falls behind in my fort at 1 per day
unrotten DRINK_MAT-producing plants > 5
empty food storage items > 5
drinks < 600 #My drink stockpile capacity
lavish meal (1)
unrotten cookable solid item > 10 #Keep extra for taming
unrotten cookable item > 10
unrotten prepared meal < 2500 #My prepared meal stockpile capacity
Code: (Bones) [Select]
totem (1)
unrotten totemable body part > 0
horn crafts (1)
unrotten horn body part > 0
ivory/tooth crafts (1)
unrotten ivory/tooth body part > 0
bone bolts (5) #A quiver's worth
unrotten bone body part > 5
bone bolts < 50 #Claimed bolts don't count
bone crafts (1)
unrotten bone body part > 0
bone bolts >= 50 #Only when I don't need more bolts
Code: (Combat bolts) [Select]
charcoal (1)
logs > 0
refined coal < 20
bronze bars (use bars) (1)
tin bars > 0
copper bars > 0
refined coal > 5 #Keep extra on hand for misc forging, ignore if magma forge
bronze bolts (1)
bronze bars > 10 #Keep extra on hand for misc forging
refined coal > 5 #Ignore if magma forge
metal bolts < 50 #Claimed bolts don't count
copper bolts (1) #Only when bronze runs out
copper bars > 10
refined coal > 5 #Ignore if magma forge
metal bolts < 50
bronze bars = 0 #Prefer bronze
tin bars = 0 #Potential bronze
Code: (Plant Oil Soap) [Select]
ash (1)
logs > 0
ash = 0 #Keep only 1 on hand, this is quick
lye (1)
ash > 0
empty buckets > 0
lye = 0 #You can't select "lye-containing items", not sure if this works. Use "Make ash (1) completed"?
mill seeds to paste (1)
unrotten PRESS_LIQUID_MAT-producing seeds > 10 #Spares for planting
non-pressed PRESS_LIQUID_MAT-producing glob = 0 #This is slow. I should probably set it higher.
press liquid from paste (1)
non-pressed PRESS_LIQUID_MAT-producing glob > 0
liquid container > 0
SOAP_MAT-producing liquid = 0 #I should probably set this higher, too.
soap from oil (1)
lye-containing items > 0
SOAP_MAT-producing liquid > 0
soap bars = 0 #Hospital bars don't count
Code: (Clothing) [Select]
spin thread (1)
unrotten hair/wool > 0
process plants (1)
unrotten processable plants > 20 #Reserve booze
amount of plant cloth < 30 #Don't need too much on hand
collect webs (1) #Cavern can be sealed suddenly due to emergency, just 1 job at a time.
undisturbed thread > 200 #Account for unreachable webs, YMMV.
silk cloth < 30
cloth robe (1)
unused plant cloth > 4 #Need enough for each set
robes < 20 #Claimed items don't count
cloth trousers (1)
unused plant cloth > 4
trousers < 20
cloth shoes (1)
unused plant cloth > 4
shoes < 20
silk robe (1)
unused silk cloth > 4
robes < 20
silk trousers (1)
unused silk cloth > 4
trousers < 20
silk shoes (1)
unused silk cloth > 4
shoes < 20
Code: (Misc) [Select]
collect sand (1)
empty sewn-imageless boxes and bags > 0 #This should count only bags
sand-bearing items < 2 #I keep 2-3 bags on hand
melt a metal object (1) #Should be limited to a magma forge
melt-designated items > 0

You might also want orders to keep quires and coffins on hand.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 07:17:05 pm by Bumber »
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Sarmatian123

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2019, 09:56:38 pm »

I have automation only for brew and with 13 stills I set up automation chains for 13 different alcohols. I still need to check stockpiles for ingredients and farm some more manually, if those get low. Hard to judge visually with leaves/fruits, as there 1 barrel keeps it all.

Another automation, which I am currently considering is craftdwarf's workshop for 13 different single jobs every season in order to keep all dwarves happy. Except those in military who happen to be drafted, but training schedule 2-2-2-2-2-10-2-2-2-2-2-10, which I use should keep majority of the a wee more focused.

I would love to automate

- totem crafting & training arrows crafting but job orders for indefinite jobs is bouncing back after a dwarf cancels them and it results in error message spam.
- farming, as it sits on older automation method, which is not checking for any conditions what so ever.
- milk/cheese (not necessary though)
- shear/spin (dying & spinning of died threads already on auto) for woolen socks
- maintaining fixed amounts of given stocks animal sexes and ages (3 males, 10 females, all kids) on pastures with butcher/tannery/leather workshop for those 420-660 new leather cloths needed each year for 140-220 dwarves.
- empty bags, where bags are separate in item listing from chests/boxes/coffers. Right now I can't make any of those for dwarven rooms, if I want this automation. Also stockpiles are screwed up by boxes coming together with bags. Specially that boxes are not used by some farming processes, but bags are. Major headache with this mix-up of tools (bags) with furniture (chests).

but, automation for mid & late game is still not fully implemented and still works sketchy.

How much it would take to link already existing in game information like animal specie, sex and age into condition checking for butcher shop? Throw "milkable" and "shareable" in and these is automation for entire industry, as this information though hidden in game, is still available in game.

How much it would take to allow in condition "end with cancellation" for infinite item production orders or make it happen by default even for infinite item production orders to end with cancel and not bounce back into job manager?

« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 09:58:34 pm by Sarmatian123 »
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snow dwarf

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2019, 10:29:46 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is actually very useful knowledge, thank you for this.
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mikekchar

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2019, 04:43:09 am »

I try not to do anything by hand.  I'm not sure I *ever* get a "late stage" fortress by some people's definitions, but I often have pages and pages of orders.  So based on my font size, several hundred orders anyway.  On the other hand, I don't think I have any industries where I "forever forget about it".  Things always need tweaking.  I tend to play the game as a manufacturing simulator, though, and I enjoy the challenges that the system/bugs throw at me.  I don't mind partial solutions and hacks.  It took me a long time to realise why other people get so frustrated with the automation, while I love it -- you need to be OK with the idea that it's never going to work properly.  However, if you are, I think it is quite fun.
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doublestrafe

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2019, 11:01:02 am »

All this is why I use workflow in dfhack instead...all of these problems are handled. Separate orders for stone and leather "boxes", for example. An order for five masterful steel battle axes, plus a stockpile for non-masterful metal stuff that auto-melts. I haven't tweaked production in my megaproject fort in years.
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Sil3nt

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2019, 11:56:24 am »


Stigazustos, "ForumUsers", a ☼Masterful quality☼ discussion
This is a ☼Masterful quality☼ discussion. All craftdwarfship is of the highest quality.
The item is a masterfully designed image of Bumber and forum's users in hematite. Bumber is surrouded by the forum's users.


Ahahah just kidding a bit, i got so many good ideas from you guys, sometimes it just feel like i'm going to get crazy since i do every single task manually... my brain is getting close to legendary multitasker rank!
Ok maeby i'm playing too much DF
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Sanctume

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 12:20:50 pm »

From my current notes, I make specific cloths clothes, and cheeses for the honeymoon suites stockpiles.

`j -m-q` 
Process (Cotton) Plant 10 
> c Condition 
> + Frequency (daily) 
> a Add item condition 
> i Change item type 
> plant 
> m Change material 
> cotton plant plant 
> n Change number (available at least) 
> 10 

Weave (Cotton) Thread into (Cotton) Cloth 6 
> c Condition 
> + Frequency (daily) 
> r Add condition from reagents/materials 
(defaults to unused collected plant thread) 
> m Change material 
> cotton plant plant 
> n Change number 
> 10 
(available is at least 10) 

Make cloth dress (1) 
Restarts if completed, conditions checked daily 
Amount of cotton dress  Available is less than 6 
> q 
> make cloth dress 1 
> c Condition 
> + Frequency (daily) 
> a Add item condition 
> i Change item type   
> dresses 
> q change inequality “is less than” 
> n Change number 
> 5 
> m Change material 
> cotton 

Repeat the make cloth dress, replace with: 
1. Trousers 
2. Sock 
3. Mitten   
4. Cloak 
5. Hood




J-m-q
Milk animals 1
> c Condition
> + Frequency (daily)
> a add item condition
> i change item type
> buckets
> t change traits
> empty [esc]

Make cheese 1
> c Condition
> + Frequency (daily)
> r Add conditions from reagents/materials
> q “available is at least”
> n Change number
> 1

Bumber

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2019, 08:53:44 pm »

- totem crafting & training arrows crafting but job orders for indefinite jobs is bouncing back after a dwarf cancels them and it results in error message spam.
Don't use indefinite jobs. Use X amount, checked daily, with a condition of X amount available. X = 1 or X = 2 should sufficient given arrow stack size and skull availability.

- empty bags, where bags are separate in item listing from chests/boxes/coffers. Right now I can't make any of those for dwarven rooms, if I want this automation. Also stockpiles are screwed up by boxes coming together with bags. Specially that boxes are not used by some farming processes, but bags are. Major headache with this mix-up of tools (bags) with furniture (chests).
Supposedly the "sewn-imageless" trait describes only (not decorated) bags. I think there's a "hard" trait that describes boxes.
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. Was this inevitable (Y/y)?

Sil3nt

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2019, 11:46:48 am »


cloth robe (1)
   unused plant cloth > 4 #Need enough for each set
   robes < 20 #Claimed items don't count


How do you set the part concerning "Claimed item don't count"? I can't find it in any of the sub-menu
Thank you
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Bumber

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2019, 07:08:14 pm »

How do you set the part concerning "Claimed item don't count"? I can't find it in any of the sub-menu
Thank you
They never count, because they're not "available".

Edit: Although we should probably be checking for wear, if possible. I think "unrotten" would ignore only XXclothesXX. Is the "unused" trait available for clothing?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 07:28:28 pm by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. Was this inevitable (Y/y)?

Sil3nt

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2019, 02:58:16 am »

They never count, because they're not "available".

Edit: Although we should probably be checking for wear, if possible. I think "unrotten" would ignore only XXclothesXX. Is the "unused" trait available for clothing?

I checked the Traits sub-menu but no "unused" available for clothes, nor "unclaimed". I can only select "unrotten", which is a little misleading imo because clothes wear off but don't "rot", if i dont'mistaken...

The part i don't understand is that many orders seems to ignore conditions, so i wonder if i didn't messed up things and how did it happen, since i basically copyed your strings... like those for cloth, i have dorfs processing plants even if i have over 100 pig tails cloth, and the condition is check if less than 50. And so on many others, like clothing. It appears they are making new clothes every day (1 job, check daily).
Maeby as soon as an item is ready a new dwarf claims is? Could be i guess 
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Bumber

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Re: About your automatic orders...
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2019, 09:53:43 am »

The part i don't understand is that many orders seems to ignore conditions, so i wonder if i didn't messed up things and how did it happen, since i basically copyed your strings... like those for cloth, i have dorfs processing plants even if i have over 100 pig tails cloth, and the condition is check if less than 50. And so on many others, like clothing. It appears they are making new clothes every day (1 job, check daily).
Maeby as soon as an item is ready a new dwarf claims is? Could be i guess
That could be it, unless you've got bin issues or something.
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. Was this inevitable (Y/y)?
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