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Author Topic: My attempts at a beast slayer  (Read 4163 times)

methylatedspirit

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2019, 11:46:48 am »

On another note, the giant I am going for, Ada, is obviously incompetent. She attacked the hamlet I started in once and did two things:
Attacked somebody, and failed to even injure it;
And she stole a leaf.
(Did I mention the person was a child?)
The order of events must have been "stole a leaf", then "tried to poke a child to death with the same leaf, leaving the child uninjured". Either way, it doesn't reflect well on Ada's performance as a fearsome beast that's supposed to kill people.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 11:52:30 am by methylatedspirit »
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peasant cretin

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2019, 04:13:41 pm »

The grip break you get when moving away is based off of your relative sizes, skills and other factors like blindness or curses. If the grip break fails, you don't move away and you don't break the grip, which usually happens when something much larger than you successfully landed a grab and you lack the required skill. That's before factoring in things like relative speed too
Sorry about my last reply. Was anecdotal.

Here's the arena test on unmodded vanilla DF 44.12 As an arena test, there are no conditions affecting rolls, whether visual, buff, or debuff.

Anyone can run this test in the arena to see how single action manual dodger thwarts (grip breaks) wrestling grabs for themselves. A process is only useful if any of us can repeat it.

The setup:
Side 1 is Giant 1. The only stat you give this giant is grandmaster wrestling. We give Giant 1 grandmaster since we want them to make successful roll-to-grab. No equipment.
Side 2 is Dwarf 1. Give this dwarf novice fighter/observer/dodger. No equipment.

NPC AI controls Giant 1.
You control Dwarf 1.

The rinse and repeat:
- You wait for Giant 1 to approach. If the Giant 1 is not on an adjacent tile use the "." period key to pass 10 ticks, until you are on adjacent tiles.
- Once on adjacent tiles, use the "," comma key to pass 1 tick until Giant 1 features an attack.
- You respond to whatever attack by Giant 1 by manually dodging away, resulting in 1 tile separation between you and Giant 1.

Unless Giant 1 scores a lucky strike, the only combat messages you'll see are:
Giant 1 attacks you but You jump away. (Your successful roll-to-dodge message).
Giant 1 grabs you by bodypart with bodypart. (Giant 1's successful roll-to-grab message).
You won't see:
Giant 1 misses you. (Giant 1's roll-to-hit failure message).
This message won't appear since you are initiating a manual directional dodge.

Some poorly cropped screenshots from the arena test:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Size and strength don't factor. Dodger is and has always been overpowered and when paired with (2 tick prepare:2 tick recover) quick attack, you end up achieving far too many ends with one action.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 04:15:54 pm by peasant cretin »
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DwarvenLord

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2019, 06:23:40 pm »

On another note, the giant I am going for, Ada, is obviously incompetent. She attacked the hamlet I started in once and did two things:
Attacked somebody, and failed to even injure it;
And she stole a leaf.
(Did I mention the person was a child?)
The order of events must have been "stole a leaf", then "tried to poke a child to death with the same leaf, leaving the child uninjured". Either way, it doesn't reflect well on Ada's performance as a fearsome beast that's supposed to kill people.
No, it was in the order that I said:
 Leaf" border="0
(The reason I know it was a leaf was that someone said so in-game.)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 06:26:28 pm by DwarvenLord »
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DwarvenLord

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2019, 07:44:36 pm »

I think Geņo cloned himself.
I had gotten to the dingo's den, but he killed it almost instantly. I left him in the nearest hillock so he didn't steal all my glory. I was almost to Ada's lair when giant dingos attacked and murdered Mospar, my only protection from bogeymen. I rushed back to Limbfrills and you know who was there?
Geņo.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, we got to Controlflew.
It was literally a hole in the ground.
I saw the great giant; I ducked and dodged and weaved and stabbed. I got nasty hits on it's lungs and guts, probably giving it terrible debuffs.
It got one hit in, giving me this:
Bruise" border="0
I finally killed it. I butchered it, hoping to get some epic giant bone jewelry. No avail.
Stupid ethics.
I just took it's skull as a trophy, nearly split in half from the killing blow, being cloven asunder.
I then named my pike "The Misty Ages".

« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 07:50:20 pm by DwarvenLord »
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DwarvenLord

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2019, 05:50:45 pm »

Small problem. Geņo disappeared, and I can't find anyone else willing to join me in the two human towns to go kill a nearby minotaur. Big suprise. I feel like the dwarven civilization is too far away to get to in a single day, and I can't risk getting jumped by bogeymen. Any advice?
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Superdorf

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2019, 06:06:25 pm »

Small problem. Geņo disappeared, and I can't find anyone else willing to join me in the two human towns to go kill a nearby minotaur. Big suprise. I feel like the dwarven civilization is too far away to get to in a single day, and I can't risk getting jumped by bogeymen. Any advice?

Nobody in the meadhalls was interested? There's usually a soldier or two.

Failing that... well, certain biomes are generally bogey-free: you can stop at any mountain, desert, or beach and sleep in (relative) safety.

If there's not even any of those between you and your destination, you could maybe build a shelter halfway. Cut a tree down, stuff a few logs into your pack, travel for a half-day, then build your campsite before it gets too dark. You don't need any walls, just a one-tile ceiling to stand under. The night trolls can still find you, but bogeys won't.
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DwarvenLord

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2019, 07:37:57 pm »

As mentioned above, there is one Mead Hall. On the other side of the world. I have to wander around people's houses and hope there is a soldier in one. I got lucky with Geno and Mospar. I think I'm going to have to go with that last one. It's going to look so ugly on the map from the rest of eternity though...
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DwarvenLord

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2019, 07:40:57 pm »

I got EXTRMELY LUCK as when I loaded in, I was standing right next to a axeman named Zapas. (Tip: Don't get too attached to him.) We headed towards the nearby hillocks and got a dwarf drunk named Kubuk Ragerush. That apparently worships a god of war. We searched the nearby countryside for the labyrinth and found it almost immediately.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We entered in and waited for 'Stoodmob the wispy Mirror of Biles' to come to us. It attacked immediately, mostly attacking my companions. Zapas got good hits in, Kubuk ran, And I stabbed constantly. It was unconscious really quickly compared to Ada the giant I and got the killing blow, tearing the brain. Poor Zapas got his HEART mangled beyond recognition and promptly suffocated. Kubuk got his guts torn apart, but is still alive for now.  I took it's skull. I searched the entire labyrinth, which was a glorified hole in the ground. All I found was dwarf fat from his one victim and a room with a quern, dwarf clothing, and prepared dwarf meals. Here is the entire "labyrinth":

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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DwarvenLord

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2019, 06:01:26 pm »

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I left Kubuk at the nearest hillocks so he could heal. I picked up two more drunks and headed north to the last beast in the area, another giant. We were so close, but then got ambushed by dingos. They killed one of them, but the other was mostly fine. I butchered one, getting all  the usual things but also 'dingo sweetbread.' What?
Anyway, the lair was found.
Inside was a frail giantess. Another easy kill. Here is a summary:
Eek" border="0
Aah" border="0
I left the bodies of Zapas and the drunk in the lair, and went off to the ocean.
We got ambushed by this.
Shark" border="0
Just so you know, that is a blacktip reef shark.
On land.
Which promptly died.
Just like the ten others that ambushed us.
That was the last beast in the area, except for a hill titan.
I'm trying to figure out what it is so I don't accidentally stumble onto a steel titan.
I'm going to save, then go to the shrine. If I die, I'll savescum and ignore it.
I visited Limbfrills.
And can you guess what?
Geņo appeared.
I'm pretty sure I gave him the superpower of teleportation.

I got to the shrine.
And this is what I got.
Capture" border="0
I have no idea how to fight this thing. It would likely die if I hit it, but I can't because I'm webbed.
Can you dodge webs?

In any case, I went to kill a "man of evil".
I slept before I went in, and woke up surrounded by keas.
I went up the mountain, and simply COULD NOT find the dang entrance.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 06:24:27 pm by DwarvenLord »
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Superdorf

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2019, 07:17:08 pm »

Oh hey, this thing again!

Ugh, webs are nasty. Melee against that thing is probably going to get you killed. Skill up throwing, maybe, and hurl some bolts at it.
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Bumber

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2019, 07:50:45 pm »

I've heard minecarts make you immune to webs.
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DwarvenLord

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2019, 02:05:05 pm »

Here is the planned path for the next while:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Blue: Savescum paths
In order, here are the monsters at the stops:
1.Dingo
2. Minotaur
     SS: Hill titan, THEN mintoaur
3. Cyclops
4.Lockedsabres (Fortress)
     SS: Roc, THEN fortress
5. Dingo
6. Ettin
7. Yeti
8. Minotaur
9. Minotaur
10. Dingo
11. Beyond!
     SS: Roc

   
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DwarvenLord

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2019, 01:59:09 pm »

I decided to ignore the dingo and continue to the hill titan. Here it is:
Titan" border="0
It took a while, but after I severed some nerves It simply couldn't get a hit in. It never bit me, so I don't have to worry about venom. My kill list is looking pretty good.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I know head down to the minotaur. I find the dragon's cave that is next to the minotaur, but, for obvious reasons, don't go inside.
This minotaur is obviously tougher than Stoodmob. I've had to savescum at least three times, and I still haven't put a scratch on him. I'm going to have to skip this one.
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peasant cretin

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2019, 03:11:36 pm »

I got to the shrine.
And this is what I got.
Capture" border="0
I have no idea how to fight this thing. It would likely die if I hit it, but I can't because I'm webbed.
Can you dodge webs?

Can't dodge the web stream, but you can jump over it.

Stuff about web:
- Web gets triggered when your character is 5 tiles from a webber
- Web is restricted to the z-level on which it was targeted
- Web has a 30 tick cool down period after being sprayed

If speed 1.000 = travel at 10 ticks per tile, you want to know how many tiles it takes your character to hit your full sprint, because you want to be at full sprint at the 6 tile mark. This is where you'd jump (over) to trigger web spray.

Your landing tile is better if there's 1 tile separation between you and the webber. If you choose to jump to an adjacent tile, you run the risk of either landing in a web (=dead), or on them (as during your jump they may opt to move onto your destination tile = they dodge out of your flight path and eat up 6 ticks of that cool down period). Higher risk = more cool down. Lower risk = less time.

From a gross motor skill perspective, just assume you have maybe 15 ticks to kill this thing, which is like 3 swings versus a creature with level 6 dodger.

Pretty much this means you want to have a way to get more swings, have them be more accurate, and be able to do as much damage as possible.

You get more swings if you ground them (they fall over = somewhere around .323 speed) by either throwing stuff at them when you are 21-25 tiles away, or by shooting them. I play archer-ranger characters, so from a roleplay POV they just shoot the webber until it's dead. But for folks who want to risk melee, ground them to reduce their rate of action.

Accuracy = high skill weapon versus lower skill dodger. Since a titan/FB has a level 6 dodge, you really want at least baseline legendary weapon skill.

Aside from weapon type vs bodypart targeted, damage is based on your attributes and size. If you wanna munchkin it out you'd want a large human w/superhuman STR. Better if this human started with superior at character creation so his/her floor is as high as possible.

Best weapons: pick, whip, axe all at legendary so you can choose depending on the titan's material type, and body setup. Since you have a coral blob, it's prolly steel pick.

As you can tell, a webber is really an end/late game melee combat that's high risk/very crappy reward. IMO, it's more of a problem solving activity than a useful one.

DwarvenLord

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Re: My attempts at a beast slayer
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2019, 06:11:46 pm »

I think I know why this minotaur is so much tougher than the other one: 1. It isn't, and 2. Zapas.
Zapas drew a lot of the attacks and also landed a lot of hits, letting me finish hum off.
So here is the new plan: Skip this minotaur for know then go to the cyclops. Then go to Lockedsabre, get some minotaur fodder allies, then come back here.
We get ambushed by a black bear woman, but she is dealt with.
The cyclops goes down without a bang, so I prepare for the roc.
I actually manage to kill it. Dobar died. I lost my right hand.
I also got lucky and got to Lockedsabres before the bogeymen got me.
But when I got there.
I was ridiculously slow.
Any help? there is not damage to my  legs; my preferences are fine; the speed counter at the bottom says 0.099. I can't do this if I'm slow.
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