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Author Topic: Steam DF - Questions and discussion for tileset authors  (Read 4469 times)

Meph

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Steam DF - Questions and discussion for tileset authors
« on: March 13, 2019, 12:40:53 pm »

Hey guys,

DF will support quite a few new features when it comes to making tilesets. Features that are in TWBT right now and completely new features too. Old tilesets will need to be updated, and this is the place to discuss it. I just wanted to invite all tileset authors here, so that everything is in one place.

Cheers,
Meph
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 05:38:27 pm by Meph »
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
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malistaticy

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so hyped for the possibilities
will the steam version have any features (besides the graphics and sounds in and of themselves) that wont be available to the classic version?
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Meph

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Steam Achievements are in the talks. Otherwise the back-end will be the same. There might be binary changes making it diffuclt for dfhack/therapist, but otherwise the two DF versions should be the same.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Taffer

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The game's color system is a bit of a nightmare IMO, with RGB values dynamically mapped to only 16 colors. Is this being changed? I'm concerned that if DF will be able to support many more colors in the future, then I won't be able to easily control the game's appearance anymore. I like the palettes, and I actually wish the dynamic RGB mapping would go away (because it just makes vomit turn blue on some color schemes, and more frustrating bugs).

More broadly, I'm excited that I can finally do things like have barrel graphics without messing up screw pumps, but I hope the game continues to support a simple 16 color, ASCII-esque aesthetic. I'm aiming for a Crazy 8x8/Caves of Qud 9x9 look and I hope the rush to improve the graphics doesn't make that difficult.

I assume Adventure mode will be suported, because to my understanding TWBT doesn't.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 01:33:20 pm by Taffer »
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Taffer's Tilesets: better colours, improved yet faithful graphics.
Dwarf Fortress Revised: balance, fixes, and convenient features. Every creature has a better description!

Meph

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We haven't discussed colors and color schemes with Toady yet, but I agree. The ingame color additions muck up a lot of things; TWBTs -top files are a godsend to keep the color you actually used when making a sprite. It's certainly a topic that will be discussed; once we have a playable beta version and can see all the sprites ingame.

The Ascii version should look pretty much like it does now, but with a larger back-end that allows more changes. Including screw-pumps. :) Btw, you can do that right now with TWBT too if you like.

Yes, adventure mode gets the same support as the fort mode, UI and worldmap. :)
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Taffer

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I'm reading contradicting statements, and it worries me. Will the free, classic version of DF have the same modding and graphical support as the Steam version? Is the only difference that Steam has premade graphics and music, and Steam Workshop integration?

I don't want to have to install Steam on my Linux boxes just to use the new capabilities for my tileset.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 01:55:59 pm by Taffer »
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Taffer's Tilesets: better colours, improved yet faithful graphics.
Dwarf Fortress Revised: balance, fixes, and convenient features. Every creature has a better description!

Meph

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Apparently I got it wrong first time on the discord chat. Sorry for that.

Quote
Will the free, classic version of DF have the same modding and graphical support as the Steam version?
Yes.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Superdorf

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Quote
Will the free, classic version of DF have the same modding and graphical support as the Steam version?
Yes.

Oh!

Oh cool!
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CLA

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As Taffer said, the limitation to 16 colors adds a lot of clarity to the game graphics. I hope it stays simple to keep it that way. It would be nice if object graphics (workshops, weapons and so on) work similar to creature graphics - if there are some, it will be used, if there aren't, default tiles are used.
Personally, I think the most pressing limitation is not having separate tilesets for a) maps, b) interface/text, and c) everything else/the "game view". I'm sceptical about other improvements like transparency and support for visual representation of equipment/appearance but it sounds easy to remain optional like creature graphics are right now.
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CLA - an ASCII-like Graphic Pack with simplified letter-like creature graphics. The simple and clean looks of ASCII with distinct creature graphics - best of both worlds!

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=105376.0

Meph

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We haven't reached that part yet, but I think the main tileset might very well remain a 256 tile tileset, with all the other things outsourced to their own .pngs, just like creature sprites are handled now. That way people can make those as extensive or as simple as they like; adding unique sprites for everything or using default tiles.

In the official tileset, the map will get it's own unique look, so there will be new sprites for that.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

thefriendlyhacker

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Will the steam version have graphics sprites as well as a fancy tileset? Will there be nifty new sprite functionality?
will we finally get caste specific sprites oh god please yes
As Taffer said, the limitation to 16 colors adds a lot of clarity to the game graphics.
...
Yeah, who even needs the color orange :P
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Meph

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Quote
Will the steam version have graphics sprites as well as a fancy tileset? Will there be nifty new sprite functionality?
I'm not sure what the difference is between those. The fancy tileset will consist of graphical sprites. It's like asking if there will be bricks and also a wall. ^^

Quote
will we finally get caste specific sprites oh god please yes
;)
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

thefriendlyhacker

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Quote
Will the steam version have graphics sprites as well as a fancy tileset? Will there be nifty new sprite functionality?
I'm not sure what the difference is between those. The fancy tileset will consist of graphical sprites. It's like asking if there will be bricks and also a wall. ^^
Sorry, I derped badly while editing my post. Let me try again.

Will the steam version have creature sprites as well as a fancy tileset? Will there be nifty new creature sprite functionality?

EDIT: :D @ caste sprites. Awesome.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 09:19:10 pm by thefriendlyhacker »
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Meph

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Ah. Yes. All creatures get unique sprites. That's 767 sprites right there. X adult, child, zombie, corpse, hunting/war trained.

New functionalities are that vermin get unique sprites too. There are plans to properly show mounted units, colors of bodyparts (like hair), to assemble procedually generated creatures like FBs from parts, caste-specific sprites, properly show equipped weapons/armor... but that's all theory at the moment. For now we focus on sprites for things that already work, giving Tarn time to code. In the end he decides what is worth going for and what isn't.

I'm a big fan of an idle animation (to make creatures stand out from the background more) like this:


They are relatively easy to do, as long as you don't go insane from shifting sprites 1 pixel for like 3068 sprites (4x 767). With a 3-frame animation, that's almost 10000 sprites. ^^

Even something as simple like that increases the sprite count a lot. Just take the above beak dog. Should be 1 sprite. colored red for child, colored green for zombie, colored grey for corpse. Done. But in reality it's this:

« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 09:28:48 pm by Meph »
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

DragonDePlatino

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Personally I think you can get away with a simple 2-frame 1-pixel bob for all of your creatures. If the goal is to add movement so they stand out against background tiles, that is enough. When you animate this very slowly (think 1 frame per second) and synchronize all onscreen characters, you get something similar to Fire Emblem or Brogue. Anything faster or more complex than that can come across as hyperactive or visually-distracting for a slower-paced game like DF.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 03:30:00 am by DragonDePlatino »
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