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Author Topic: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Ironhand - Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 434317 times)

Uthimienure

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1845 on: July 02, 2020, 01:01:41 pm »

They look really good to me too.  Maybe the otter's hindquarters could be a tad bit slimmer - not much!
And a beaver's flat tail would give it away, which is probably why voliol had a (?) in his guess, I'm guessing.
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voliol

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1846 on: July 02, 2020, 06:52:47 pm »

You are right Uthimienure, I did not consider the otter, which led to an uncertain beaver guess. Knowing what it is I think it looks good, it's not like otters are extremely recognizable as far as mammals go to begin with.

Is the porcupine based on American species (I didn't even know you had those!)? The African species with more extreme quills would be more iconic, I think. Still, my choice of spiny animal was influenced by the presence of the other monotreme, so it might not even be an issue.

Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1847 on: July 02, 2020, 10:08:01 pm »

I think I tend to think of New World porcupines, myself, over the the Old World ones. Probably under the influence of shots of brown-bear cubs get a hard lesson in learning to avoid them, as they both climb the same tree, in the Canadian Rockies or wherever it is the given natural history programme in question is filming.

I'm aware that Old World varieties (parallel evolution, out of general rodent stock, much further away as 'relatives' to New Worlds than Cavies/Guinea Pigs to the latter, which probably 'helps' the different look of quill-bearing design) can even be found in southern Europe, but I am left with less of a solid image. I think they don't tend to climb trees, this side of The Pond.

Locally, there's only hedgehogs, and I don't think they're extant in the Americas at all. And are in the superorder branch that is not the one in which rodents (and apes!) exist, yet still came up with their own riff on the spine. Not as extreme, but I think more photogenic, as well as handleable. ;)
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Mike Mayday

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1848 on: July 03, 2020, 02:36:17 am »

Yeah, I did indeed base it on the American porcupine as I thought it looks more graceful. But now that I think about it, it might be easy to mistake it for a hedgehog (or an echidna). Maybe if I make the hind spines longer it will be more clear.
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1849 on: July 03, 2020, 07:24:32 am »

(Oh yeah, echidnas. Not even in the placental mammals. I knew I knew a more distant example, without going all sea-urchin or cactus. ;) )
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Mike Mayday

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1850 on: July 03, 2020, 06:25:30 pm »

Ok, I have a question for you guys.
After some initial hiccups, I've tried to maintain a consistent perspective for all the land creatures (I probably didn't succeed in all cases...).

I'm done with the birds:

And I'm working on the remaining fish - here are a few examples, most of them old, and today's barracuda and bluefish:


As you can see, in many cases I didn't stick to the "near isometric" perspective, assuming that this will help stress the fact that the creature is not on the ground, but rather flying/floating/swimming with little regard for directions. Or rather, that was the excuse, while the real reason is that it provided more variety (thus being more fun to draw) and it was a LOT more difficult to find reference material with the right angle for birds and fish than for land animals.

With the bluefish, I drew the fish from the "correct" perspective, but having found no appropriate ref image I tried to use my imagination (the problem is that takes much more time and I have a strictly limited amount of time for each sprite).

How do you feel about this? Do you think perspective is not so important for birds and fish or does it look noticeably wrong to you?
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Superdorf

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1851 on: July 03, 2020, 06:27:46 pm »

Is probably fine. Directionality is always going to be a somewhat abstract concept in Dwarf Fortress.
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Uthimienure

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1852 on: July 03, 2020, 06:38:46 pm »

Is probably fine. Directionality is always going to be a somewhat abstract concept in Dwarf Fortress.
+1
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1853 on: July 03, 2020, 07:11:26 pm »

"I don't know much about art, but I know what I like", or whatever I'm misquoting. Works for me.

You are very constrained (inb4 size comparisons[1]) and obviously I await the Premium++ animated versions with various modes of soaring, stooping, flapping, fluttering, hopping, running, striding and waddling[3] from the birds and the similarly diverse[4][5] marine movements. But these'd satisfy me for a first release. Accurately animated versions can probably wait until you have time to have the mental breakdown due to such overwhelming artistic demands... ;)

TL;DR;.  ...Bravo. Just the rest of the aviary/aquarium to do, now, right? No pressure!


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Bumber

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1854 on: July 03, 2020, 07:27:04 pm »

@Starver
It's a whale shark. Basking shark doesn't have spots.
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1855 on: July 03, 2020, 08:28:32 pm »

Not my field (or pond), so I'll hold my hands up to that error. Basking Sharks occasionally frequent (frequently occasion?) the coast near me, Whale Sharks don't come this way at all - that I know of!

And those stipples (perhaps not as regular as I expect from my vaguest knowledge of the carpet-shark family) just looked like dithering at first glance, and thus I obviously dithered too. ;)
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voliol

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1856 on: July 03, 2020, 10:23:55 pm »

That barracuda looks strange and too cartoonish, I thought, not knowing what a barracuda looked like IRL. What a wack animal! No complaints about it, nor the poses.

teh sam

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1857 on: July 04, 2020, 11:18:10 pm »

Just posting to say I just found a link to this thread the other day and have thoroughly enjoyed reading through it and the various discussions.  I hope you guys continue to use it and elicit opinions.  I will attempt to be helpful and constructive.  Overall just loving everything from the ramps to the menagerie to the poor squished lizard.
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Cruxador

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1858 on: July 06, 2020, 08:39:19 pm »

Yeah, I did indeed base it on the American porcupine as I thought it looks more graceful. But now that I think about it, it might be easy to mistake it for a hedgehog (or an echidna). Maybe if I make the hind spines longer it will be more clear.
Besides that, the current version seems to be missing its tail, so fixing that would help. It sort of looks wrong without it, and definitely more hedgehog like-than it ought to.
Quote
and it was a LOT more difficult to find reference material with the right angle for birds and fish than for land animals.
Er, you should probably be getting references of these from enough angles to have a general understanding of their body forms. I wonder if this limited breadth of reference images is part of why the peacock turned out wonky.

I think sprites for creatures in a 3D environment being different if fine, but some of the positions are a bit weird on their own.
Particularly the sperm whale making a weird pose (do they ever move their cores that much? Can they, even? The only examples I can find that even kind of look like that are the result of severe foreshortening).
Also a bit weird that the barn owl is sprited in the midst of landing when everyone else is flying. Similarly weird that the vulture has its legs sticking down; not something they normally do in flight.

The two falcon-looking ones (I can't identify more specifically by species, but top left and second from the bottom, also left) look short round and goofy. I know a certain degree of "chibi" is inevitable given that it's quite a small size to attempt recognizable faces on, and that's consistent with most of the other animals (the loon is a notable exception in this batch) but I think you could make them look a lot better by trimming those two pixels of extra chub from their breast. Maybe even bring the more abaft of the two up by a second pixel, to avoid too much of a straight line and to be consistent with how high the tail is? I know it'll mess up the really clean rendering you've done of the facial markings, but I think the silhouette/form of the body is important enough to sacrifice that at this scale.

Also a couple things I'm not too clear about. Of the two that look more or less like vultures, why does one have its legs down? As far as I know, California condors do that, but also don't look like that. I wasn't able to come up with another species that does that in regular flight. So I'm curious what both of the two buzzard-looking fellows are meant to be.

Also the one below the bald eagle, the impression it gave me at first was like an osprey, but the facial markings are wrong and you've been pretty accurate on those for the others, as far as I see. I googled around other related taxa that might fit the body form but didn't see anything appropriate in doing so (or in a cursory google of kite types) so I guess it's just something I'm unfamiliar with.

You are very constrained (inb4 size comparisons[1]) and obviously I await the Premium++ animated versions with [variant motion types]
I don't think that's the sort of thing that will ever be a priority.

Quote
You don't [have an osprey] do you? Might not be the sub-species I'm most familiar with if you do. That's my excuse, anyway. Carry on!
I checked the four recognized subspecies, none of them match. The bald eagle is also a sea eagle though, and could prey upon the fish just the same as an osprey would.

That barracuda looks strange and too cartoonish, I thought, not knowing what a barracuda looked like IRL. What a wack animal! No complaints about it, nor the poses.
The impression is because of the angle. They look normal side-on. This one looks a bit more cartoonish because of the ridge Mike added on the back of the head, but aside from that it's accurate (if we assume that the blue color is based on the lighting it's assumed it'll have in its natural environment).
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Bumber

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1859 on: July 06, 2020, 08:54:27 pm »

Particularly the sperm whale making a weird pose (do they ever move their cores that much? Can they, even? The only examples I can find that even kind of look like that are the result of severe foreshortening).
I think it's a size constraint issue. Can't have it looking smaller than the whale shark. The pose is exaggerated, but it differentiates them from fish.

If you had an osprey there in the top picture[2], by eye it's conceivable it could catch and fly away with anything but the (sperm?) whale.
I just noticed that the birds are at 2x magnification.

Here's the proper comparison:




Relevant bonus footage.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 09:04:02 pm by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?
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