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Author Topic: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 225543 times)

Iä! RIAKTOR!

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2505 on: December 26, 2020, 06:33:49 pm »

Design of some items needs rework. Double bladed axes are unrealistic. As great axe, bardiche will looks better. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Bardiche.jpg/800px-Bardiche.jpg Especially left, because DF great axes have very big contact area. This https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Recordofeuropean03lakiuoft_0159.jpg is difference between battle axes and bardiches.

Jewelry needs serious rework too. As examples of realistic designs in fantasy games I recommend Discord Times, Legends of Eisenwald and Bastard.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2506 on: December 26, 2020, 07:09:36 pm »

The official tileset will probably be valuing readability and aesthetic over realism. It makes more sense to critique things from the angle of "will the player know what this represents?" rather than "is this what the item actually looks like?"
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Iä! RIAKTOR!

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2507 on: December 26, 2020, 09:58:46 pm »

The official tileset will probably be valuing readability and aesthetic over realism. It makes more sense to critique things from the angle of "will the player know what this represents?" rather than "is this what the item actually looks like?"
There is no best aesthetic than imagination of player. As readability, ASCII (+ingame text description) is much more better than any tileset that I ever seen.
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Cruxador

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2508 on: December 27, 2020, 12:35:10 am »

Double bladed axes are unrealistic.
You don't know what you're talking about. Look at Indo-Persian sources for many obvious counter-examples. Greek and West African sources attest the use of similar weapons, albeit less readily available. Don't take internet nerd lore as gospel; pop history usually contains as much falsehood as truth regardless of branding.

Quote
Jewelry needs serious rework too. As examples of realistic designs in fantasy games I recommend Discord Times, Legends of Eisenwald and Bastard.
This is so vague that it can't even be ascertained whether you might have a valid point, much less how to appropriately act on it if so.

The official tileset will probably be valuing readability and aesthetic over realism. It makes more sense to critique things from the angle of "will the player know what this represents?" rather than "is this what the item actually looks like?"
There is no best aesthetic than imagination of player. As readability, ASCII (+ingame text description) is much more better than any tileset that I ever seen.
If that's your perspective, then you're likely not the market for the tileset anyway, and will be better served continuing to use ASCII.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2509 on: December 27, 2020, 01:06:32 am »

The official tileset will probably be valuing readability and aesthetic over realism. It makes more sense to critique things from the angle of "will the player know what this represents?" rather than "is this what the item actually looks like?"
There is no best aesthetic than imagination of player. As readability, ASCII (+ingame text description) is much more better than any tileset that I ever seen.
Irrelevant.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2510 on: December 27, 2020, 01:08:22 am »

The great thing with Dwarf Fortress is that (almost) everything is customisable. Including the new graphical additions! So the medieval weaponry fetish crowd, the ASCII+ lovers, and even new people trying to play the game for the first time are catered for. Awesome.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2511 on: December 28, 2020, 05:22:26 am »

but it would still be a shame if ”Slaves to Armok: God of Blood”, ”Chapter II:”, and ”Histories of X and Y” were to go.

It would make sense as an easter egg, perhaps on a credits/version screen if there ever will be any.

Really the steam version in essence is a quintessential chapter III in itself.

The great thing with Dwarf Fortress is that (almost) everything is customisable. Including the new graphical additions! So the medieval weaponry fetish crowd, the ASCII+ lovers, and even new people trying to play the game for the first time are catered for. Awesome.

Roll over to the modding forum and there's a great demand for alternative graphical content also, predominantly absurdist humor & sci-fi in line with mod content. But i do wonder about the attention steam workshop might bring over to trying to do simple modifications beyond simply making a human sprite a extra layer of green and due to difficulty spriting saying that's a finished job done; unlike the classic version where with no details it mostly is left up to transcription & imagination what a creature looks like being a genie let out of the bottle that can't be put back in again.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2512 on: December 28, 2020, 06:48:24 pm »

Yeah, it's a real pity as even simple mods immediately reveal the power of the simulated world behind it. It's fantastic the first time you make a copy of the dwarf raws, tweak them so they love baby snatching slap a new name on them and watch history take off. All of 3 minutes work.

To feel like you'd have to add graphics, especially these new complex graphics, to play with modding "properly" might be a big turn off for many.

And people call those of us who prefer simple ASCII style graphics "elitist"... ::)

(And now way off topic, sorry).
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bloop_bleep

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2513 on: December 28, 2020, 09:10:49 pm »

CDDA has this thing where if the tileset doesn't support a certain picture slot it just shows the ASCII depiction instead.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2514 on: February 02, 2021, 11:27:42 am »

Starver raised an important point in http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243514#msg8243514:
How compatible are the official Premium tileset copyright/use rules with using it to illustrate the wiki pages? Logically that should be permitted as that would both be a selling point and enhance the usability of the wiki, so if that hasn't been considered, it ought to be.
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Feeona

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2515 on: February 02, 2021, 04:37:20 pm »

Starver raised an important point in http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243514#msg8243514:
How compatible are the official Premium tileset copyright/use rules with using it to illustrate the wiki pages? Logically that should be permitted as that would both be a selling point and enhance the usability of the wiki, so if that hasn't been considered, it ought to be.

I don't see there being a problem with the wiki using the Premium sprites. :)
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2516 on: February 02, 2021, 05:29:50 pm »

Starver raised an important point in http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176640.msg8243514#msg8243514:
How compatible are the official Premium tileset copyright/use rules with using it to illustrate the wiki pages? Logically that should be permitted as that would both be a selling point and enhance the usability of the wiki, so if that hasn't been considered, it ought to be.

I don't see there being a problem with the wiki using the Premium sprites. :)
Are there any computer game wikis that have been banned from using screenshots of the game itself? Kitfox would be shooting themselves in the foot to try that. And since they just posted in the Improve the Wiki forum, I suspect they'll continue with the common sense every other game company uses.
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2517 on: February 02, 2021, 07:56:30 pm »

I mentioned it, in the midst of a general ramble[1], as courtesy. And, it seems, it'll be reciprocated.


Relevent to the tileset discussion, the main body of the WikiThread ramble had me presuming it would be 'simpler' and less effort for selective graphics to be suitably compiled and donated direct by the artists[4] themselves. But I've not done the legwork to compile what might be the current, or desired, list of demonstrative graphics already demonstrated in well-established pages.

There's definitely the "what bars/blocks and structures of a material look like" composite. Some principles (like bridges) are variously illustrated but not sure if non-figurative graphics are always needed. Probably a representative dwarf (perhaps gender alternatives, maybe a mixed uniform/profession sampling) and the same with other sentient-races.

It seems excessive to do for creatures, etc, what the current "what this CodePage character is" listing gives - though it'd be truly handy, it'd be both dismissing the idea that you now can tell what this particular "g" is on sight and force the release of effectively all of the Premium tiles (even if just restricted to the adult/both dimorphic adults, not child/zombie/etc).


I'm not currently asking for answers here (much more needs to be done, including the main Wikipeople making their own assessments of what could be done) but I think it's now also fair that this Tileset Team be able to think about what may be asked of them (even if it's just passing the bulk of the work to the crowdsourced 'enthusiastic amateurs' with full blessings).

(And I'm glad it doesn't look like it isn't a case of "easier to ask forgiveness than for permission" and that the questions might better to have been not asked.)


[1] Par for the course!
[2] Or book series, film franchise, TV series, etc.
[3] Can't count myself among them. I have almost never found anything I can add or clarify that isn't already already catered for by the time I come across it, so I'm by far a net consumer.
[4] This following the suggestion that a representation of non-ASCII/non-Premium graphics could be a 'third' active display option, but that's a question for elsewhere.
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clinodev

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2518 on: February 02, 2021, 08:28:53 pm »


I don't see there being a problem with the wiki using the Premium sprites. :)
Are there any computer game wikis that have been banned from using screenshots of the game itself? Kitfox would be shooting themselves in the foot to try that. And since they just posted in the Improve the Wiki forum, I suspect they'll continue with the common sense every other game company uses.

Just for clarity, you're replying here to the same Kitfox CM who replied in the other thread.

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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2519 on: February 02, 2021, 10:16:23 pm »


I don't see there being a problem with the wiki using the Premium sprites. :)
Are there any computer game wikis that have been banned from using screenshots of the game itself? Kitfox would be shooting themselves in the foot to try that. And since they just posted in the Improve the Wiki forum, I suspect they'll continue with the common sense every other game company uses.

Just for clarity, you're replying here to the same Kitfox CM who replied in the other thread.
So I see.
Was meant as a reply to Patrik
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