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Author Topic: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 42420 times)

CLA

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #180 on: March 16, 2019, 02:14:14 pm »

Color filters ARE automatically applied in DF. Which is actually kind of a problem.
With creature graphics, you can already choose to let the game color it or use them as is with ADD_COLOR/AS_IS. Why not expand that to all graphics?
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CLA - an ASCII-like Graphic Pack with simplified letter-like creature graphics. The simple and clean looks of ASCII with distinct creature graphics - best of both worlds!

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Meph

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #181 on: March 16, 2019, 02:19:07 pm »

Regarding trees, I think one thing that will help them not looking like stumps is to have the center black, just like the way stone walls are right now.
Good idea... Trick question for you: With the current rock-wall style we use (inside is black), how would you portray a rock-wall that is revealed from above, without being mined, without it bordering on a floor tile?

Unrelated: Maybe a trade depot design closer to vanilla?
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Pillbo

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #182 on: March 16, 2019, 02:20:08 pm »

Quote
I was thinking the game could do it, more like- someone makes a mod of new type of mushroom, and they point the raws at the built in sprites for stock mushrooms with a red filter over top, so you get visually distinct objects that fit right into the look of the stock art.
I'll ask Tanya. In theory it should be fine for the Steam version, as long as they don't use the sprites in the free version. Recolors would be the easiest way, yes. If nothing major changes, people can just do that in the raws btw, no need for changing the pictures. Just change the color values in the text files.

Oh great, I was imagining with this full color sprites that color values in raws wouldn't be functional anymore.



Is this the sprite for war dogs or dogs in general? I like this for hunting dogs, it looks like they are following a scent.  I'd prefer something less in-action for a standard dog, and maybe something more aggressive for war dogs.



Maybe adding something food related to the kennel will help it look like animal training happens there too? Hanging meat? A rat in a cage?

I was also wondering if you could make statues be on their sides when 'toppled', right now I often don't even know my statues aren't 'built' until clicking them for some reason.
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Meph

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #183 on: March 16, 2019, 02:51:51 pm »

A toppled statue is nothing else but the item:statue, just like in stockpiles or workshops. If toppled statues are turned 90, so are all other not-constructed statues.

The sprite is the standard dog Mike made, I just added the collar to show that they are trained.
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Japa

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #184 on: March 16, 2019, 03:05:32 pm »

Regarding trees, I think one thing that will help them not looking like stumps is to have the center black, just like the way stone walls are right now.
Good idea... Trick question for you: With the current rock-wall style we use (inside is black), how would you portray a rock-wall that is revealed from above, without being mined, without it bordering on a floor tile?

Unrelated: Maybe a trade depot design closer to vanilla?


A darker stone pattern, to indicate what's there, but still show that it's inside a wall.
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LordBalkan

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #185 on: March 16, 2019, 03:07:11 pm »

I was wondering... Since the beggining I couldn't, still can't, tell the difference between ores, mere stone, layer stone that are used as flux, and the other variations that exists.
At the end I always have to take a look on wiki to check if the stone that my miners just found are "Hey, we found some good stuff here!" or just "hey look, a different kind of simple rocks here".

We have thicker walls, for soils and ores and the like. The thin walls are rock (not important) and the thicker ones, with more surface area to show info, are flux, ores, gems, etc. (important)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Can't make them any thicker than that, otherwise they start to merge in the center.

This here? This is happines heheheheh

About the Depot, chance to really do the spots like if they were Columns? Don't know why but always think at the 5 spots as greek columns supporting whatever, but yes. The pixel-pixel art also looks good and could resemble something like a balance, for the trades you know?

« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 03:08:59 pm by LordBalkan »
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LeoCean

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #186 on: March 16, 2019, 03:35:03 pm »

Well the walls in the steam version look a lot like odd realms walls which are also small.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(don't like them either) Stone is used a lot, but the main reason I said that didn't have everything to do with stone, it was also the wood wall that was also black on the inside.(I mean sure from your tileset I see you plan to make walls more visually appealing instead of the short graphics + blackness being shown in these new walls)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It'd be nice if it at least took up half the tile on the sides at least. Instead of being a thin 2mm wall.

@LordBalkan It was rather easy before to tell between flux, ores ect because the graphics for them were quite different. Of course maybe it was just because I did some graphics work on spacefox after he left, so I knew exactly what those tiles were used for.
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Bumber

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #187 on: March 16, 2019, 03:37:57 pm »

We have thicker walls, for soils and ores and the like. The thin walls are rock (not important) and the thicker ones, with more surface area to show info, are flux, ores, gems, etc. (important)



Can't make them any thicker than that, otherwise they start to merge in the center.

I think ores and gems would look better as clumps mixed in the wall, rather than as a solid coating. Real life examples:

Gold veins:




Emeralds:


Rubies:
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 03:42:04 pm by Bumber »
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LordBalkan

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #188 on: March 16, 2019, 03:50:54 pm »

@LordBalkan It was rather easy before to tell between flux, ores ect because the graphics for them were quite different. Of course maybe it was just because I did some graphics work on spacefox after he left, so I knew exactly what those tiles were used for.

 :'( I guess I would have got used to it, but its tricky for me.

For the walls, looks like meph and mayday have some limits on how to do them as for inside looks.

Since you brought in an image that Meph posted on his own tileset post (heheheh I saw what you did here) I do prefer the Zelda Link to the Past look that he also posted on this same reply...
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Meph

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #189 on: March 16, 2019, 04:04:03 pm »

Bumber: The ore forms a vein, just like you posted, when several of the sprites are next to each other. It's a layer of rock, a layer of gold, a layer of rock, etc. And gems... well:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Those are 8 wall tiles, getting 8 embedded gems. Next one is 16, 24 and 32. That way you can tell the value, the more gems in a cluster, the higher the value. In case that isn't liked, we could also just increase the size of the embedded gems, but I do like the first example more.

Note the two rock walls on the top: Thin rock for "normal" stuff, thick rock for interesting stuff. ;)

and yes, there is a limit, 16pixels to be exact. Tiles are 32x32 and there can be wall-edges on both sides, so a single wall shouldn't be more than 16px.

Ignore the glimmer, that's something I did in my own set. ^^
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Hapchazzard

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #190 on: March 16, 2019, 04:23:41 pm »

Could adjacent wheat/crop tiles in general 'merge' for a more natural look? Here's what I have in mind:

1. Horizontal merging only


2. Vertical merging (an additional row of wheat added in between fully grown tiles)


It's a really quick photoshop hackjob, but I think it gets the idea across well enough. IMO it makes the field look more like proper, lush farmland, and looks more aesthetically pleasing in general. Would this be possible/hard to implement?

Also, I think random patches of tall grass and flowers on the ground would really help with breaking up the monotony of finely-trimmed green lawn grass.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 04:27:18 pm by Hapchazzard »
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LordBalkan

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #191 on: March 16, 2019, 04:24:44 pm »

And gems... well:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Those are 8 wall tiles, getting 8 embedded gems. Next one is 16, 24 and 32. That way you can tell the value, the more gems in a cluster, the higher the value. In case that isn't liked, we could also just increase the size of the embedded gems, but I do like the first example more.

Note the two rock walls on the top: Thin rock for "normal" stuff, thick rock for interesting stuff. ;)

The oposite doesn't make more sense? Dont know, when there is many of one thing it just not lose his rareness and get cheaper? hahahha just bothering you I got the ideia an do prefer the "amount of" instead of "the size of" to measure the value.

Ignore the glimmer, that's something I did in my own set. ^^

OH. DANG IT. Was about to ask about the glimmering lol
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Meph

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #192 on: March 16, 2019, 05:06:36 pm »

Hapchazzard: I'd say no... while it does look good on the wheat, there are over 100 different plants you can farm. Some should merge like that, others shouldn't. It would have to be assigned manually, and (more importantly) each tile is a harvest-able object. While merging them looks better, it also makes it harder to realize how many plants there are.

Other grass types and growths, flowers, etc, is something we do have. ;)
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Cruxador

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #193 on: March 16, 2019, 06:55:42 pm »

Community feedback bonus round: Kennels!

Kennels are only used to tame small animals. That's it. They only need 1 boulder, block, log or bar to be build. Kennels are 5x5. Kennels are weird.

In vanilla DF, kennels are shown with 4 grates and 2 earrings (?), which makes no sense to me. Instead I'd go with 4 animal-traps and 2 chains/ropes, since that has something to do with catching animals. I would make the kennel floor tranparent, with rock/dirt at the animal-traps, like a little barn or cattle shed.

What do you guys think? (#1 vanilla setup, #2 my idea, #3 on constructed floor with vermin added for fun, #4 on grass.)


I don't think the vanilla actually has rings, but rather, it has some item which is most closely represented by the same character that rings are. In any case, I think your take on it is solid, with the exception that it has the same flaw as a lot of your workshops do: The cages lack an appropriate appearance of depth. Seriously, just extend the tops like 2.5* as far back, and their appearance will be greatly improved.

It's up for debate. I'd prefer if professions are visible, even if it means adding tools that aren't there; Mike takes your stance, with professions being not very important.
If you consider things from a factual perspective and look at the actual design of the game, professions are not only not very important, they're very nearly meaningless. There is no such thing as a profession in-game, dwarves are just colored by highest skill (or a few specific gestalt cases) because that was most convenient when dwarves were first added to the dwarf game many years ago, probably closer to two decades than to one, and since then it has never had opportunity to be changed until now. It's important only in the sense that there's a tradition among spriters to account for it, since it's the only element that was available to account for. But it isn't actually very meaningful in its own right; not only is the information conveyed of limited importance (thus suggesting that the value is not higher than other opportunities that could be derived from color) but it implies itself to be of higher importance than it is, which means it could lead players unfamiliar with the game to assume that their master cheesemaker and accomplished weaponsmith is useful, because how important is cheese? In this very much non-rare situation, the value of showing profession prominently can even be negative. How, then, can it outweigh the value of giving people what they pay for, and using graphics to represent what's going on in the game as accurately as is feasible? It's sacrificing a primary goal of the tileset in favor of something of arguably negative utility.

And I know I'm repeating myself here, but it bears repeating. This graphical overhaul should be seen as an opportunity to significantly improve how the game is presented, not just to make incremental upgrades to the methods which the very premise of this endeavor holds as inadequate.

Good idea... Trick question for you: With the current rock-wall style we use (inside is black), how would you portray a rock-wall that is revealed from above, without being mined, without it bordering on a floor tile?
The only valid answer I see is that you need  a ninth tile per stone type, one a bit more like the old wall tiles in that it's designed to fill the tile (or at least most of it) without respect to its surroundings. In other words, a circle or star within your 32 pixel tile showing stone, ore, or whatever else may be there; where your current stuff patterns stone/etc moving away from the line which is the exposed edge of the wall, this would have the same patterns moving away from a point in the middle of the tile. Anything you bodged together using the eight wall tiles so far developed would look bad, and digging downward is an often enough occurrence that this shouldn't look bad. But I think it's find if these revealed tiles don't actually tile well with each other, since there'll rarely be even two adjacent cases revealed, much less many.
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Meph

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #194 on: March 16, 2019, 06:59:00 pm »

I bet the screwpumps are going to confuse people...

Realistic looking screwpump  aka the archimedes screw:


The small boxes in the kennels are animal traps btw, cages look like this:
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 07:00:38 pm by Meph »
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::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::
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