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Author Topic: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 42438 times)

Kromtec

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #270 on: March 19, 2019, 03:01:18 am »

Sashes would be cool, or toolbelts, or whatever, but... there might not be that many pixels left for clothing, clothing color, sash and profession-somethings. ^^

Remember, this is the size we are using: (red shirt, brown vest, brown skirt, green/farmer sash)


I was a little bit torn between easy position readablity and being able to see that noble that went crazy, cowering naked in a corner, because he didn't get his turtle shell earrings.  ;D
But after seeing this mockup, I think this can work and we could get the best of both sides.
As Starver said, pips/lines/... on the sash/toolbelt/... could help to get in some hierarchy information. I am sure it is not an easy task, to encode that much info into so little space, but if it works, oh boy!

Jiri Petru

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #271 on: March 19, 2019, 03:56:11 am »

This green sash looks nice. I just think that when you keep adding badges, pips and crowns for nobles etc., you end up hiding so much of the original sprite that the base clothing isn't really visible any more. At this point you may as well draw a unique noble sprite.

And with this, I think I've said everything I have to say on this topic.

Whatever the end result, I have confidence that Mike and Meph will do something gorgeous. Can't wait!  ;)
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Markus Cz. Clasplashes

Meph

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #272 on: March 19, 2019, 04:00:31 am »

Well, for everything we'd need:
Hair style (5), length (5) and color.
Beard style (5), length (5) and color.
Sideburns style (5), length (5) and color.
Moustache style (5), length (5) and color.
Eye color.
Skin color.

Clothing types (~30) and color.

Professions. (~100)
Maybe skill in some form. (~15)

Positions. (Nobles, ~100)

Equipment. (Weapons, armor, shields, picks/axes, ~30)

Injuries. (?)

Gender/Sex (2).

With 32x32 pixels. ^^

To be honest I wouldn't be super opposed to some kind of colored bar with stars/stripes in it, below/above the dwarf. An icon, depicting skill/profession. Something optional that can be toggled.

If only everything could be a snarky flying skull. Would make spriting much easier. :P
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #273 on: March 19, 2019, 04:12:42 am »

To be honest I wouldn't be super opposed to some kind of colored bar with stars/stripes in it, below/above the dwarf. An icon, depicting skill/profession. Something optional that can be toggled.

If only everything could be a snarky flying skull. Would make spriting much easier. :P

Professions isn't nessecarily 100% required i don't think, if you use utilities like stonesense for instance that give visual feedback on what dwarves are wearing therefore making it more incentivised to use dyes and exotic clothing pieces.

Especially since you can have dwarves go between jobs, with the other personal features it seems restrictive to overlay a uniform when layered pieces can be in effect to especially hammer home the aspect of your dwarves as having individual flair and improve the adventurer sprites rather than have a generic (adventurer) uniform or citizen base sprite for your hero dressed in 3 cloaks and metal armor appearing as if they are wearing a tunic.
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Meph

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #274 on: March 19, 2019, 05:17:50 am »

To be honest I wouldn't be super opposed to some kind of colored bar with stars/stripes in it, below/above the dwarf. An icon, depicting skill/profession. Something optional that can be toggled.

If only everything could be a snarky flying skull. Would make spriting much easier. :P

Professions isn't nessecarily 100% required i don't think, if you use utilities like stonesense for instance that give visual feedback on what dwarves are wearing therefore making it more incentivised to use dyes and exotic clothing pieces.

Especially since you can have dwarves go between jobs, with the other personal features it seems restrictive to overlay a uniform when layered pieces can be in effect to especially hammer home the aspect of your dwarves as having individual flair and improve the adventurer sprites rather than have a generic (adventurer) uniform or citizen base sprite for your hero dressed in 3 cloaks and metal armor appearing as if they are wearing a tunic.
"if you use utilities"... you have to keep in mind that this tileset is for new players coming from Steam. With no third-party utilities at the beginning.
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #275 on: March 19, 2019, 06:33:02 am »

To be honest I wouldn't be super opposed to some kind of colored bar with stars/stripes in it, below/above the dwarf. An icon, depicting skill/profession. Something optional that can be toggled.

I guess if Toady could somehow easily whip up an extra info toggle to support something like that that'd be ideal, maybe even tack on first name/initials unless that gets too bloated, but sounds like a lot to hope for for now.
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funkydwarf

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #276 on: March 19, 2019, 07:42:36 am »

Speaking of no utilities, hopefully there are icons to make the in game labor tool more clear.  Most of DF is not that hard to understand but labors without utilities is sure to turn alot of people off and be a source of rage quit confusion.
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Hommit

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #277 on: March 19, 2019, 08:00:28 am »

With no third-party utilities at the beginning.
Imo, but DF is unplayable (literally unplayable, i say!) without Dwarf Therapist
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #278 on: March 19, 2019, 08:29:03 am »

It's stated there will be some measure of UI rework, how much and which parts in particular we probably won't know until we get there though (there were some specifics mentioned already somewhere), but certainly a good idea to post in suggestions about which particular parts one has issues with before then  ^^
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Cruxador

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #279 on: March 19, 2019, 10:45:29 am »

This green sash looks nice. I just think that when you keep adding badges, pips and crowns for nobles etc., you end up hiding so much of the original sprite that the base clothing isn't really visible any more. At this point you may as well draw a unique noble sprite.
I was thinking those would be on the sash. Maybe in extreme cases (the king) could expand beyond it, but more as an exception to the rule.

Professions. (~100)
Maybe skill in some form. (~15)
With the sash method, professions are just 1+color, which seems adequate to me. Skill level of the top skill could be represented by simple pips on the lower end of the sash, upgrading to a band or chevron on legendary. But it again runs into the issue that you're obscuring skills other than the highest by implicit focus, which is a pretty questionable choice from a game design perspective.

Quote
Positions. (Nobles, ~100)
You definitely don't need a unique sprite for every possible position. Even with the positions that you encounter rarely, there's only like two or three dozen types by function, tops.

Quote
To be honest I wouldn't be super opposed to some kind of colored bar with stars/stripes in it, below/above the dwarf. An icon, depicting skill/profession. Something optional that can be toggled.
That's the exact same thing as the sash, functionally. Of the two, I think the sash is less destructive to the aesthetic and immersion of the game.

To be honest I wouldn't be super opposed to some kind of colored bar with stars/stripes in it, below/above the dwarf. An icon, depicting skill/profession. Something optional that can be toggled.

I guess if Toady could somehow easily whip up an extra info toggle to support something like that that'd be ideal, maybe even tack on first name/initials unless that gets too bloated, but sounds like a lot to hope for for now.
Text needs tons of pixels, you need 4*7 per character at absolute minimum. That's not gonna work out on anything that can be always on. It might be cool to have a mouse hover thing that's like a middle ground between no focus on the character and using a key press and a click to [v]iew a character, though. Depends on where Toady goes with the UI improvements. That wouldn't be on my shortlist, personally. A context-specific right click to [v]iew a unit if there is one, else to [q]uery a building if there is one, else to loo[k] at the tile would cover most functionality you'd want from something like that and more, and might well be easier to add besides.
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Jack-22

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Re: Premium DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #280 on: March 19, 2019, 11:06:40 am »

I know this might not work, but have you thought about doing a triangular shadow for the darkest points of the ramp?



This works for me. I see the ramp without the visual paradox up/down the art of the cubes.
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Isabelle82

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #281 on: March 19, 2019, 11:13:24 am »

With no third-party utilities at the beginning.
Imo, but DF is unplayable (literally unplayable, i say!) without Dwarf Therapist

Never used Dwarf Therapist so i can (can´t) say how much there is a difference. Had Forts with 150 Dwarfs upward and was fine doing everything manualy.

It even takes a while for me even to use Tilesets/ Lazy Newb Pack. Ever played Ascii, until my Bfriend at this time get´s sick of me playing this because he couldn´t get what I´m doing. So I decided to use graphics so he could see that this is a game and no cryptic "Matrix" style programing language (so he called it before I used Graphics)  ;)
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Starver

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #282 on: March 19, 2019, 11:30:21 am »

It even takes a while for me even to use Tilesets/ Lazy Newb Pack. Ever played Ascii, until my Bfriend at this time get´s sick of me playing this because he couldn´t get what I´m doing. So I decided to use graphics so he could see that this is a game and no cryptic "Matrix" style programing language (so he called it before I used Graphics)  ;)
Speaking of which, I hope you're still on for our 'business meeting' at the Θ. You bring the §s, I'll bring the ÷ and ¶s...
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Meph

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #283 on: March 19, 2019, 11:39:48 am »

It even takes a while for me even to use Tilesets/ Lazy Newb Pack. Ever played Ascii, until my Bfriend at this time get´s sick of me playing this because he couldn´t get what I´m doing. So I decided to use graphics so he could see that this is a game and no cryptic "Matrix" style programing language (so he called it before I used Graphics)  ;)
Speaking of which, I hope you're still on for our 'business meeting' at the Θ. You bring the §s, I'll bring the ÷ and ¶s...
What? ^^
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Starver

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Re: Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #284 on: March 19, 2019, 12:40:12 pm »

Bad (taste?) joke, aimed mostly at vanilla-tile users. Nvm. Not worth deleting now.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 12:41:55 pm by Starver »
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