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Author Topic: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 278881 times)

Cruxador

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1635 on: May 05, 2020, 12:36:28 am »

Quote
Just a suggestion as far as rounding off the square leaf tiles- Leaves may be a good candidate for spreading beyond their designated tiles a few pixels.  If they could overlap each other without looking weird it may be a good way to make trees feel fuller, less on a grid, and more natural. I think the effect a few z-levels up in a forest might be really nice.
We are going the opposite way, with crown shyness.
Crown shyness isn't necessarily a thing in all or most species. Also, this isn't even necessarily applying to leaves from different trees.

Quote
Cruxador, yeah, sure we can do barks in pixelart, it just takes longer. Not high priority enough to actually do it atm.
Well yeah, aside from color, the leaves are probably more visually recognizable than bark on most species. I was thinking about different trees in not just  bark spriting.
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Bumber

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1636 on: May 05, 2020, 03:25:39 am »

Having alders with the same color leaves as birches would irk me.

Can't tell if that's is a joke or not:
http://www.tree-guide.com/alder-leaves
http://www.tree-guide.com/birch-leaves

Which species are we comparing here?
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voliol

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1637 on: May 05, 2020, 05:01:42 am »

Having alders with the same color leaves as birches would irk me.

Can't tell if that's is a joke or not:
http://www.tree-guide.com/alder-leaves
http://www.tree-guide.com/birch-leaves

Which species are we comparing here?

B. pendula (European/warty birch) and A. glutinosa (black/European alder). That website doesn't give a good picture of the leaves, the gloss and transparancy is mostly left out.
Considering Tarn and Zach are not European, though, perhaps those are not the species in Dwarf Fortress. I hope my point gets through none-the-less.

Rekov

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1638 on: May 07, 2020, 01:12:45 pm »

Comparison of today's world map with saturation +10, lightness -20.

I'm just going to point out for now how odd it is that lakes are darker and more saturated than the ocean on the current release.

Large image in spoilers
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1639 on: May 07, 2020, 02:47:41 pm »

Comparison of today's world map with saturation +10, lightness -20.

I'm just going to point out for now how odd it is that lakes are darker and more saturated than the ocean on the current release.

Large image in spoilers
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Brighter one looks a lot more readable to me. Might be a tad bright, hard to say, but the darker one is definitely too dark.

Also, how would lakes being darker be odd? With how much it varies IRL through a multitude of factors it swining either way could be justified really.
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1640 on: May 07, 2020, 04:06:41 pm »

I think we're just used to pellagic areas being darker blue than the nerritic/inshore swathes or of course lacal bodies.

Yes, there's all kinds of lake and river colourations IRL that may meet seawater or each other[1], but I'm sure we're not yet at that level of imagery on a world-map level.


(In a topgraphical map of global elevations, I found it worked best with water areas ranging Deepest<=depth<MSL transitioning smoothly from #008 to #00F colour, MSL<height<=Heighest being #0F0 through to #FFF and anything (effectively) at MSL got pixels of #FF0. It wasn't strictly accurate, and did not in any way colour lakes with bottoms above sea-level, or indeed depressions such as the land around the Dead Sea, or represent deserts differently from rainforests, etc, but that wasn't part of the data I used. It just looked more 'natural' in that particular rendering with the deep parts of the ocean the deepest blue, continental shelving lighter and all the rest being initially green until it rises up to the snowiest of snowy peaks.)


[1] https://www.flickr.com/photos/nancygoodenough/5560345574
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qRClKxzJX9A/hqdefault.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/51dEWmX4MzU/maxresdefault.jpg
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4d31dd51d6c7b354d1b285fa420b6bd7
https://i.redd.it/7kl9d0ey28u01.jpg
...and also interesting reading: https://www.adn.com/science/article/mythbusting-place-where-two-oceans-meet-gulf-alaska/2013/02/05/
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CL3AR

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1641 on: May 07, 2020, 04:31:40 pm »

In general, I think that deeper water should be darker. Even if that's not completely accurate, it is what people normally expect. Unless there are plans to accurately model the colors of lakes in dwarf fortress, we should just keep it intuitive.
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CL3AR

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1642 on: May 07, 2020, 05:10:27 pm »

Maybe make the lakes brighter to match with the rivers.
On the same note, it would be neat if the water got lighter near the shores.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 05:12:13 pm by CL3AR »
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Doorkeeper

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1643 on: May 07, 2020, 11:03:39 pm »

I mentioned earlier on FotF, but again, I enjoy the tileset world map. Maps are cool.

After observing the most recent map, I noticed an issue that currently exists on classic too. Could the lair and cave symbols on the map be more distinguished in both ASCII and tileset? Right now, both sites are represented as a gray dot () in ASCII, and both presumably share the same sprite in tileset (mossy rock mound with bones(?) strewn at the entrance, and red glowing eyes in the dark). Only the roc lairs in ASCII, which are green dots, are unambiguous.

My suggestion is that the sites could be distinguished by color; lairs are changed to a brown (soil) mound, while caves remain rocky. For ASCII, lairs would become , and caves would remain . Roc lairs in ASCII would be unaffected, but for tiles, perhaps a large nest could represent them instead?

In-game, most lairs are either mounds on the surface or burrows that go down one z-lvl beneath the surface. There's more info w/ screenshots on the wiki article. Caves are larger rock formations that extend down to the underground caverns.

Sorry for the Classic graphics suggestion, I know this isn't the place but it's intertwined with my suggestion for the tileset version.

edit: PoC, just saturated & hued the rocky bits, and smoothed down the top

« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 11:23:36 pm by Doorkeeper »
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Meph

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1644 on: May 08, 2020, 12:37:47 am »

Maybe make the lakes brighter to match with the rivers.
On the same note, it would be neat if the water got lighter near the shores.
It will. Sprites are all ready for that, just needs to be coded. :)

Doorkeeper: There are no caves on the screenshot, it's all lairs. Caves do have a different sprite. :)
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Doorkeeper

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1645 on: May 08, 2020, 04:28:54 pm »

Doorkeeper: There are no caves on the screenshot, it's all lairs. Caves do have a different sprite. :)

That's great to hear. Sorry for the mistake, I shouldn't have assumed.
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voliol

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1646 on: May 11, 2020, 06:23:41 am »

Looks cleaner than before, keep the good work up :)

I see that the good desert gets its own color. Can we expect the same for red/black/white deserts or are they all yellowish pale for the sake of visual clutter? (would be a shame, I think, but might be necessary)

KassaK

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1647 on: May 11, 2020, 08:36:08 am »

Hi,

What about modding for the future steam version ?

Will it be the same as now ? What about DfHack for example ?

Do we have any information ?
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Cruxador

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1648 on: May 11, 2020, 09:39:54 am »

Hi,

What about modding for the future steam version ?

Will it be the same as now ? What about DfHack for example ?

Do we have any information ?
Using the full graphical capabilities will necessarily be more complicated, since the new graphical system will be more complicated. Otherwise, this shouldn't affect modding differently than other updates.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #1649 on: May 11, 2020, 11:35:40 am »

Hi,

What about modding for the future steam version ?

Will it be the same as now ? What about DfHack for example ?

Do we have any information ?
This thread is for the graphics explicitly, and as far as I know DFHack isn't involved in tile sets beyond TwbT. Most or all of TwbT's capabilities are intended to be provided by DF itself, although not exactly in the same form. Tile sets are to be separated from the saves and the raw files, so the format will change in some way (the tile set has to be separated to allow saves to be transferred between Commercial and Classic versions to allow for e.g. generation fortresses). The exact capabilities provided by DF will be determined as things are tried out and, I would assume, the available time allows.
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