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[Starver]

Cruxador also mentioned lichen, in the context of easing the transition between tiles

Ah. Probably pronounced the other way from when I wrote it, then.

[Cruxador]

Depends on if they can parse what's going on in the image I guess, to me at least it just looks really weird.

At the very least there should be shading between the ramp and the hall, like there is at the bottom of the ramps.

This. + 1

Also, the Idea of lichen plants helping the transition between terrain sounds good, even though that means making a whole new plant.

Well, I think the idea wasn't a new plant but just using some pixels of color to add lichen visually, without corresponding gameplay.

Im thinking tho, as a purely graphical solution, would it be possible to have all tiles, that are next to a grass tile, have a little bit of grass on them, spreading out from the neighbouring grass tile?
If you understand my meaning.

The problem is, sparse grass is already a thing. It's represented, currently, with the same visual effect as full grass. If the system were updated to represent tufts of grass over the base terrain, we would have sparse grass where there's supposed to be sparse grass. But that would require a variant version of each grass for each level of density. Although there's not that many density levels and each one would be relatively easy to make, it's still a multiplicative increase in the number of tiles, and also needs to either generate or layer tiles since now the terrain and the covering are taken into account. It's an improvement and I want it too, but whether to budget the time for it is a non-obvious decision that would have to be made not just by Mike and Meph.

[MoltenIdol]

Depends on if they can parse what's going on in the image I guess, to me at least it just looks really weird.

At the very least there should be shading between the ramp and the hall, like there is at the bottom of the ramps.

This. + 1

Also, the Idea of lichen plants helping the transition between terrain sounds good, even though that means making a whole new plant.

Well, I think the idea wasn't a new plant but just using some pixels of color to add lichen visually, without corresponding gameplay.

Fine by me .

[quote by Cruxador]:
"The problem is, sparse grass is already a thing. It's represented, currently, with the same visual effect as full grass. If the system were updated to represent tufts of grass over the base terrain, we would have sparse grass where there's supposed to be sparse grass. But that would require a variant version of each grass for each level of density. Although there's not that many density levels and each one would be relatively easy to make, it's still a multiplicative increase in the number of tiles, and also needs to either generate or layer tiles since now the terrain and the covering are taken into account. It's an improvement and I want it too, but whether to budget the time for it is a non-obvious decision that would have to be made not just by Mike and Meph."
[quote end]

Yeah. We'll, wether its done purely as a graphical overlay, or implemented in context to already existing grass-density code, i guess its the same amount of work for the artists.
If they decide to do it.

But it would definitely help the transition.

Id argue that the same thing could be done with dirt tiles, spreading out over adjecent rock surfaces, purely as a graphical overlay (or, have dustings of dirt spread out from dirt tiles, as an actual game mechanic), since dirt would technically end up on top of the rock surface a lot of the time, being spread out.
+
Small rock tips potentially popping out on dirt-tiles with adjecent rock tiles. (Purely graphical overlay?)

Again, just an idea that might or might not work as intended.
It would really blur the lines between tiles, thats for sure, and maybe it should just have a 50% chance of visually occuring, so its not all over the place.
Some hard borders are good too.

Might look like crap.
Might be the right technique.

Who knows
\_('-')_/

[Meph]

A bit more like this?

[voliol]

How come certain grass tiles have higher saturation? Different grass types?
The rocky patches look way better like this, I think.

[Meph]

Each grass has four sprites as variations, the lighter/darker ones are just that. Same grass, the variants are just to make it look a bit less copy+pasted.

There is meadow grass, cottongrass and mountain heathers on that screenshot, and one other grass I don't remember atm.

[Cruxador]

A bit more like this?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The transition with the stone patch looks great. The garish clashing is completely fixed and it looks very realistic. The only exception is how there's same-sized splotches distributed more or less evenly, but that's not something that can be handled purely graphically. Taking into account the limitations and need to represent the actual situation accurately, this is implemented as well as it conceivably could be; it's perfect.

Regarding the "high saturation" tiles, I do think they stand out too much. Specifically, too much yellow: That goes beyond questions of lighter and darker and is a matter of color balance. Maybe that would look different on a different embark and be fine, for example if proportions of different colors were different. but I think in the image there, it would be good to rejigger the colors. Overall, the color choices convey a dreary overcast day compared to the sunny day in the more monotonous grass textures from Toady's latest video. It's subjective which is better; neither is worse from a technical perspective or anything but I find the sunny day more pleasant. Would be cool to have a shader that let both be possible according to weather but again, that's beyond graphical.

Each grass has four sprites as variations, the lighter/darker ones are just that. Same grass, the variants are just to make it look a bit less copy+pasted.

There is meadow grass, cottongrass and mountain heathers on that screenshot, and one other grass I don't remember atm.

Cottongrass is the one that's blooming now, I assume? I think you toned the brightness down a bit too much.

[Superdorf]

A bit more like this?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm using this as my desktop background now

[ror6ax]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A bit more like this?

Artefact quality art, Meph! Thanks so much!

[MoltenIdol]

A bit more like this?

Yes, that looks really good!

[Eric Blank]

A bit more like this?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This looks really good

The boulders though, they do stand out a bit as something being displayed edge-on instead of top-down, they resemble the style of the items you've drawn, i'd expect to be able to interact with them. They pop out quite well, not like the rest of the background landscape components. Maybe a sprite thats more in the style of the surrounding grass/rock patches so they blend in?

[Meph]

It's a tough decision, what's top-down and what's side-view.

The boulders are not multi-level and can be looked through/over. I rather have them in the style of plants, saplings, and everything else on the surface. Only walls and trunks are top-down, because of the multi-level aspect.

[MoltenIdol]

Do you think using this technique elsewhere, to also ease transition between other tiles would be good?
Say, dirt and rock etc. having the dirt spread into the rock tiles, just like the grass does. (Witht the dirt being "on top" of the rock, like the grass)
Or would that be too much?
I think It might look really smooth, in my minds picture at least

Good day out there!

[Meph]

Do you think using this technique elsewhere, to also ease transition between other tiles would be good?

We use that a lot. Did you see the world map?

[MoltenIdol]

Do you think using this technique elsewhere, to also ease transition between other tiles would be good?

We use that a lot. Did you see the world map?

Yes i did, and I think the technique really works.
Im REALLY looking forward to playing this graphical release once its "done"

Im purely talking about the terrain when "in game", looking at your fort or adventurer.
Its purely an aesthetical suggestion, and I realize it might be a good amount of extra work.
But i think it would look good when applied to even more terrain.

Take for example the image nr. 4 (i think it was), with the patchy terrain.
If you could have that same way of transitioning between all those tiles, i truly think the "patchy square looking terrain" problem would be almost solved.

Although i would like to add, that SOME hard-borders between tiles, once in a while, might look really good as well (especially hard borders on grass tiles), and make the terrain come off as more "natural", like a forest floor, with werid irregularities and big tuffts of grass that almost creates a small "overhang" (with a hard border).

It might create the (wanted IMO) illusion of more uneven terrain, without it actually being uneven Because of differing z-levels.