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Author Topic: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Ironhand - Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 328337 times)

Meph

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2640 on: November 14, 2021, 02:23:09 am »

Vettlingr I did answer your PM, but just be very clear: You are absolutely correct, I do use Denzis bones and nice bone-color-palettes that I found online. Both of which are free to be used according to their license. In my own, free, non-commercial tileset.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
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vettlingr

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2641 on: November 14, 2021, 02:32:32 am »

Vettlingr I did answer your PM, but just be very clear: You are absolutely correct, I do use Denzis bones and nice bone-color-palettes that I found online. Both of which are free to be used according to their license. In my own, free, non-commercial tileset.
It is an impossibility that all are free-to-distribute licenses, maybe these two are, but I have looked over others which I know are not.

Also I know that you didn't draw anything yourself in your tileset, everything is ripped, stripped or jumbled/mishmashed together.

If Everything is from free licenses and nothing is original content:

It is not your work and it is not your tileset.

You can even claim it so don't even try

Meph

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2642 on: November 14, 2021, 02:42:49 am »

I feel like this is not the place to discuss the Meph tileset, since this is the Steam DF thread.
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vettlingr

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2643 on: November 14, 2021, 03:25:12 am »

I feel like this is not the place to discuss the Meph tileset, since this is the Steam DF thread.
It is. Since this is unproffessionalism and these practices are something that is extremely detrimental to any development cycle. You are stealing mikes fame, riding toady, riding kitfox. You should have been honest from the start, that you were no pixel artist.

And it is not a discussion, I am calling you out and telling you off because I have never seen this degree unprofessionalism, plagiarism, alleged "stolen valor", pretend talent and alleged fraud in all my years of game artistry. You were given the position of art direction and tileset artist in assumption that you actually did draw tiles yourself, which was a big lie.

You have to understand that they may have to do internal investigations to make sure you have not done any of your usual antics while working on the official tileset, that is why I find even borrowing a palette for commercial use so alarming. Alleged plagiarism is extremely serious and sometimes it is unavoidable even if you feel you have done everything right. Burrowing a palette like that

As I said in my Very outraged PM, I hope it is Extreme idiotic and oblivious naivety that has brought you to this point.

This all that being said. I have yet to see any evidence of plagiarism in the official tileset, yet. Though I haven't looked into it much yet.

Meph

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2644 on: November 14, 2021, 03:47:44 am »

Kitfox is well aware of this. I told them myself that I'm not a pixel artist, this is just a hobby for me, that I'm surprised that they approached me, and that they can't use the sprites from the Meph tileset, because I either didn't drew them or because they were composites. Hence why an entirely new tileset is being made, with Mike Mayday is the "art director", even if we never announced any fancy titles. I'm mostly on board to do variations of sprites Mike has already drawn; and to do mod support, since that's where my expertise is. Over the last 1.5 years I've had to draw a lot more sprites than anyone in the team expected, but I won't bring up the reasons for that publicly.

I probably am very naive, for example I never considered that it might be wrong to use a similar or even the same color palette. I googled it now, copyrights for color palettes don't even exist. It's impossible to steal them, because no one has rights to colors.

I understand that you are upset, since you think I'm somehow lying to Kitfox or Tarn or Mike, but... maybe wait for their replies first.
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Inarius

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2645 on: November 14, 2021, 02:07:25 pm »

anyway nobody has to talk to you like this, i support you, you have given a lot of time and work and deserve more than being called idiotic.
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Matrim_Cauthon

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2646 on: November 14, 2021, 11:18:53 pm »

I feel like this is not the place to discuss the Meph tileset, since this is the Steam DF thread.
It is. Since this is unproffessionalism and these practices are something that is extremely detrimental to any development cycle. You are stealing mikes fame, riding toady, riding kitfox. You should have been honest from the start, that you were no pixel artist.

And it is not a discussion, I am calling you out and telling you off because I have never seen this degree unprofessionalism, plagiarism, alleged "stolen valor", pretend talent and alleged fraud in all my years of game artistry. You were given the position of art direction and tileset artist in assumption that you actually did draw tiles yourself, which was a big lie.

You have to understand that they may have to do internal investigations to make sure you have not done any of your usual antics while working on the official tileset, that is why I find even borrowing a palette for commercial use so alarming. Alleged plagiarism is extremely serious and sometimes it is unavoidable even if you feel you have done everything right. Burrowing a palette like that

As I said in my Very outraged PM, I hope it is Extreme idiotic and oblivious naivety that has brought you to this point.

This all that being said. I have yet to see any evidence of plagiarism in the official tileset, yet. Though I haven't looked into it much yet.

You're calling out a free, hobbyist mod that clearly marks itself as being made from other art as it's base, as not meeting the standards of a commercially sold product.

It should be immediately clear why that is ridiculous.

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FantasticDorf

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2647 on: November 17, 2021, 04:32:33 am »

This all that being said. I have yet to see any evidence of plagiarism in the official tileset, yet. Though I haven't looked into it much yet.

Ill be honest and say a impartial take will probably be more valuable, the DF playerbase is large enough, without throwing in any bias and possibly seeing something that isn't actually there (such as a tile that was made and inspired by the DF premium perhaps at this current time to be compatible at a later date).

Save your energy for steam-workshop, with it being availible to the mass-public without the enclosed enviroment of threads and the scrutinous Bay12 community keeping it in check, i think there will be a lot of "demo'ing" art from far more casual suspects, which in turn will be a uphill battle for visual content creators to make styles that arent stepping on someones toes.

Anyway, i look forward to the next couple of pictures coming out of the steam set to pour over.
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clinodev

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2648 on: November 17, 2021, 07:22:52 am »

It seems unfortunate that this commentary is ongoing after Meph asked for it to end in this thread and subsequently apologized profusely all around multiple places elsewhere.

For your convenience, here is the thread Meph moved the discussion to, where his current comments are focused on getting people to stop attacking Vettlingr.

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PatrikLundell

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2649 on: February 11, 2022, 02:47:10 am »

Feedback on the settlement icons presented in the official thread:
If possible, I'd like the dwarf type settlements to differ in color from the "neutral" ones (castle, vault, shrine, tomb, labyrinth, and cave/lair). It would also help to make them more visible against the typical mountain background of dwarven settlements.

The monasteries and towns stand out nicely against the background, for instance.

The Retreat might benefit from some decorations to help them stand out more, although there's always the risk of turning it into Christmas trees...
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Mr Crabman

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2650 on: February 11, 2022, 06:33:35 am »

Feedback on the settlement icons presented in the official thread:
If possible, I'd like the dwarf type settlements to differ in color from the "neutral" ones (castle, vault, shrine, tomb, labyrinth, and cave/lair). It would also help to make them more visible against the typical mountain background of dwarven settlements.

The monasteries and towns stand out nicely against the background, for instance.

The Retreat might benefit from some decorations to help them stand out more, although there's always the risk of turning it into Christmas trees...

I feel like the dwarven settlements are plenty distinct enough from the mountain background; in fact, maybe a little too clearly visible (they look almost painted on).

The retreats are also plenty distinct, at least to me; the tone of green makes them pop out a lot from the surrounding forest.

FantasticDorf

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2651 on: February 11, 2022, 08:35:05 am »

I've said as much already to voice my first impressions on discord that Retreats are very bushy. I don't think it con(i)fers a lot of information about the site being populated, when most actual elves live and run businesses in treehouses. A suggestion to help make it more o(a)k-ay would be perhaps overlaying the camp sprite into little hovels, then adapting around the existing forests sprites? Since elves live in a variety of enviroments like jungles, taiga and regular woodland all bound together by their broad forest biome settling habits.

The rest of them I can read pretty well at a glance. I assume the textual information for a necromancer tower is just tempoary too to current development roadmap because it'd be quite troublesome rather than just calling it a "Tower" for modding and future DF development neutrality purposes.
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Starver

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2652 on: February 11, 2022, 09:29:13 am »

...I feel like we need a new Official Tileset thread, given the change in artists. If there's not one already (I spotted this activity via "New replies...", not board-browsing, I should really check), and/or Patrick edit2: Jacob/Ironhand?[1] be posting in here to say something appropriate.

edit: Aha.. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179359.0 (and possibly some other new threads).

[1] I'm clearly getting confused over names... Whoever.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 09:34:42 am by Starver »
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voliol

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2653 on: February 11, 2022, 10:15:40 am »

...I feel like we need a new Official Tileset thread, given the change in artists. If there's not one already (I spotted this activity via "New replies...", not board-browsing, I should really check), and/or Patrick edit2: Jacob/Ironhand?[1] be posting in here to say something appropriate.

edit: Aha.. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179359.0 (and possibly some other new threads).

[1] I'm clearly getting confused over names... Whoever.
I second making a new thread, given this one was started by Meph and only the thread author can change its name, it is stuck as containing "Mayday/Meph"... unless I am wrong and those powers are also available to mods, e.g. Toady? In that case he could change it to "Mayday/Ironhand", though I suppose it might still be confusing with Meph being the person at the top of the thread.

Meph

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Re: Steam/Itch.io tileset - Mayday/Ironhand - Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #2654 on: February 11, 2022, 09:30:26 pm »

Better? ^^
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::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::
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