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Author Topic: Invaders and Tree Root Systems  (Read 1316 times)

Indricotherium

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Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« on: March 15, 2019, 12:31:47 pm »

Uh, question. Can invaders climb down through tree roots from the soil layer above?

I've got my first siege going on, pulled up my bridge and locked the back door and thought all was good from the approximate 130 goblin strong siege until we could meet them on ground of our choosing. Unfortunately, the upper soil layer of the fort is now the scene of a swirling close quarters combat brawl with multiple doors taken by the invaders. It's possibly too late to keep them from reaching the central staircase and if so, things are going to get very ugly. It may be time to RELEASE THE VAMPIRES.

All that being said, for the future, can Goblins get down root systems? Or did I inadvertently create gaps in the ceiling by chopping trees down up there on the roof?
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methylatedspirit

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2019, 12:37:31 pm »

It's almost certainly caused by creating gaps in the ceiling by tree-cutting. Roots, as far as I know, are impassable tiles and are of no concern.
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Indricotherium

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2019, 12:51:20 pm »

Oh Armok, I did. There are hard to see spots of open space all up there. And the dwarfs have, of course, blocked the doors leading to the central staircase. The traps have been bypassed and there's nothing for it now but to conscript the entire population of 150 adults and slug it out on the stairs and in the tunnels. Luckily the armory is deep. I don't have enough gear for everyone but what I have is better than nothing and should suffice to arm 50 or so of them, not counting woodcutters and miners.

I could evac the fort down to the offshoot tunnels leading to the first and second cavern layer, but I lose the forges, the armory, the living quarters, most of the food and drink and the hospital. I would still have the farms, the water, and could probably try to survive long enough to see if my Undead Squad of two vampires could break the siege. Yeah, that might be the way to try and play it.


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That is a wasteful idea that recklessly endangers life. I applaud your genius!
There are as many ways to play the game as there are socks on a battlefield.

methylatedspirit

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2019, 01:13:07 pm »

Assuming that you're playing either vanilla DF or the LNP with TWBT's multilevel view off, there should be a noticeable difference between holes in the ceiling and just the ceiling when viewed one z-level above. To demonstrate, I'll be using these two images. Even though I'm using Phoebus as the tileset, the general principle should still hold up for any other tileset.

The one on the left shows the ceiling of the fort, along with some dug-out channels representing holes in the ceiling.
The one on the right is a view from exactly one z-level above that of the left image. Notice that the 'holes' in the ceiling look markedly different from the ceiling.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 01:20:56 pm by methylatedspirit »
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Starver

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2019, 01:19:54 pm »

It's useful (before this point) to view the ground level(s) and shift the view-slice up a Z or two to more easily see the 'gaps' that clearly show themselves (as with ponds) by being "column of open air" tiles instead of "ground just below this Z" tiles. Where you find such inexplicable and/or inconvenient gaps you can refloor over to seal them.

(Ninjaed by C2H5OH, there.)

That's before the incursion but after the errors that caused them. I always check, even though I tend to first define for felling all trees on the surface that are growing above the footprint of the Z-1 subsoil tunnels and rooms I'll be digging (and if I see roots in the soil I'm digging out I delay that digging until I make sure the tree is felled).  Though I mostly do this for other reasons, such as keeping my work to dig out my 'sunken overground farm plots' by ramp-up digging to clear the sunken Zs and their 'ceiling' without risk of cave-ins, and other little design decisions.
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methylatedspirit

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2019, 01:29:36 pm »

(Ninjaed by C2H5OH, there.)
I'll have you know that I have only one carbon atom in my structure, which is why I go by methyl, not ethyl!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 01:31:46 pm by methylatedspirit »
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Starver

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2019, 01:47:54 pm »

(Ninjaed by C2H5OH, there.)
I'll have you know that I have only one carbon atom in my structure, which is why I go by methyl, not ethyl!
The spirit part is generally as above. I can't speak for your additives (including the traditional purple colour) and whether you're ~10% methanol. If you're bitter about it, maybe it includes denatonium benzoate, and there's loads of carbons in that!  ;)
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Indricotherium

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2019, 04:39:45 pm »

Good advice I will be adding to my DF knowledge for the future.

As for now, and after some thought, I'm going to cancel every workshop job in the fort, define new stockpiles for critical supplies such as food, drink, armor and weapons in the nearest sealable rooms / tunnels, and then remove all existing stockpiles of such gear. If the military can hold the gobbos long enough, my jobless populous might be able to evacuate enough gear to allow us to restablish ourselves deep down. Then I can also try to reach various sealed off areas to rescue dwarfs and get the forges restarted. I'll need new burrows too as the Siege burrow is compromised.

This is doable I believe.
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Killgoth

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2019, 08:34:56 am »

Good advice I will be adding to my DF knowledge for the future.

As for now, and after some thought, I'm going to cancel every workshop job in the fort, define new stockpiles for critical supplies such as food, drink, armor and weapons in the nearest sealable rooms / tunnels, and then remove all existing stockpiles of such gear. If the military can hold the gobbos long enough, my jobless populous might be able to evacuate enough gear to allow us to restablish ourselves deep down. Then I can also try to reach various sealed off areas to rescue dwarfs and get the forges restarted. I'll need new burrows too as the Siege burrow is compromised.

This is doable I believe.

Now I want to know how the battle turned out
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brotundbutter

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2019, 02:32:08 pm »

This thread has reminded me to go check my upper levels for unintended skylights before they become troublesome. I'm also very curious how OP's siege is going.
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Iduno

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2019, 03:48:01 pm »

This thread has reminded me to go check my upper levels for unintended skylights before they become troublesome. I'm also very curious how OP's siege is going.

And, when possible, to build farms (or other soil-needing stuff) at least 1 z-level down from anywhere trees might try to invade.
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Indricotherium

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2019, 11:05:34 am »

So far so good. i cancelled all jobs, setup new stockpiles at the first cavern layer where I'm now using the airlock system in reverse and deleted the old ones. I took a look at all my doors to determine just what I can seal off and what needs to be abandoned. I took a quick sweep through the caverns and deleted all mining. Lastly I activated all my squads (39 dwarves, mostly conscripts following the disaster that was the firebreathing dimetrodon) and told them to station themselves at the first large room (tanning, clothing, and temple) 3 levels down from the start of the staircase. Just below that is the legendary dining hall with the museum of artifacts (including an artifact table you can eat on!) and food supplies. Below that is the armory.

I unpaused.

Initial losses have been one sided as goblins dropped into a dormitory area as well as a few other rooms. A lone dwarf who managed to drag our one War Elephant into the entry hall has been riddled with arrows. We'll see what transpires with the elephant. Another is barricaded into the entryway barracks (of the Crystal Calm). I've noticed the dwarf child named after my daughter is cut off from the main fortress by the fighting but is as of yet undiscovered. I'll try to burrow her into a nearby room I still control. It's our bestiary. There's a Giant Cave Spider locked up in there that might come in handy...

As fighting surged across the trade goods storage room towards the stairs, some of the troops stationed below apparently caught a glimpse of the melee and have charged up to enter the fray. They've made sort work of the vanguard two goblins and are now moving into the storage room. One of them brought her baby along, standard procedure of course. Should they manage to retake the doors to the hallway I might have a chance to still seal the fortress off, those doors aren't blocked by anything. I"m not going to order the rest of the militia up though< many are still arriving at the original muster point and I would prefer to engage bowgoblins in the confined stairwell.

I will update as I get more to report.

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There are as many ways to play the game as there are socks on a battlefield.

TheEqualsE

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Re: Invaders and Tree Root Systems
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2019, 02:35:35 pm »

I've had so much trouble with playing whack a mole with tree roots and the long hallways into my forts that I now just avoid doing anything one layer down.  I just dig through it and don't use it.  Never have to worry about tree roots again.
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