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[TomiTapio]

I would love to have mods, that have mods that are realistic(sometimes to the point of irrelevancy) concerning resource manipulation - making several kinds of steel, that differ only in way of producing, not really in their stats, etc. - all these packed into one.

I feel that I'm on the same frequency as you.
In OldGenesis we got
ore -> coarse iron (pots, pans, bowls, lamps, anvils, bolts)
hammer coarse iron -> iron
hammer pig iron + coarse iron -> steel
flux + coarse iron -> steel
steel + bauxite -> red steel
ilmenite + coal + green glass -> black steel
aluminum + brimstone -> mithril.

Also many kinds of leather: birch bark, fox fur, rat suede, big mammal leather, monster hide, demon hide, dragon skin.
Also three tiers of wood: lousy, for basic_furniture, for finest_furniture.

[Ptasznikt]

I know, Tomi. I played Genesis, MDF and I am a fervent follower of LFR. I was a lurker on the forums, but I've played since 0.34.11
Still, however, I would love to get more complexity. Moar complexity. I'm actually completing my metal rework, with metal families and stuff, semi-Mendeleev table, but I do it only because I need it, and that's a big thing, not even as raws are concerned - that's only editing existing stuff, adding byproducts. The big thing is on the paper.
Nevertheless, I loved Genesis for "masked helmets", the small addition, that let me customize and immerse. I have the genesis raws and learning from them as much as I can.

[Eric Blank]

For me, one of the bigger issues is world generation and ensuring an embark has all the features I want.   More often than not, my tweaks fail or take an age, and it isn't easy to figure out how to ensure a successful tweak.

Another thing that I would like:  A ballpark estimate of how much CPU & RAM an embark would require to run decently.   I find that an embark over a certain size would cause DF to freeze.

Im not sure what you can do to regenerate a specific site, but with the powers of perfect world df and the  built in world editor it should be possible to create a few template world types that fit in multiple useful objects adjacent to each other frequently. The issue would be in having both gauranteed embark sites and reasonable variation between worlds, because each template will generate the same parameters each time.

If its mostly resources a site lacks, then alternative reaction pathways for things might help, say if you ended up with no iron or flux, then some microcline and granite/gabbro (its almost impossible to find a site that has neither granite nor gabbro) can be combined to produce some iron or something useful, like silicate-bronze.

One of the best things i find is to have multiple civs you could trade with, which all have access to something like iron as a baseline and an outpost liaison for some of them you can make requests through. That will ensure you can trade more. Or fight more. Whatever, right?
So a useful mod for that is like increasing the carrying capacity of wagons and pack animals available to those civs. As long as you have something to trade, you can import what you lack. So maybe a couple extra trade product pathways would be worthwhile? I cant imagine being totally devoid of decent trade goods though

A Dfhack script might be able to estimate the z-level depth of a site and tell you, based on the number of tiles in that volume, how much RAM that site will use as a baseline. Cpu depends on flowing water, temperature, critters, pathable tiles etc so thats more situational, not easily predicted, right? But maybe a script can also predict that based on the average produced by the magma sea and 3 tiles worth of a river
Some simple science from players, available publicly, will also help establish averages for that, too.



Also, dorf civ variations shouldnt be too hard to come up with. In fact i think i had a faux-greek language i generated somewhere. At least i hope that wasnt on the thumb drive the puppy ate...

[Rekov]

I really like the idea of a very basic All Races Playable mod but where the races feel different and complete. The existing All Races Playable, I think most races feel like Dwarves with more limitations and not much new. And Masterwork is great, but it isn't terribly simple for people who can't even play the base game well yet.

Really though, it's hard to answer this question without knowing the extent of the UI changes planned for the steam version. Things like Dwarf Therapist are basically essential IMO. I don't know if that kind of functionality is being built into the game, or if we'll still need the mod.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I really like the idea of a very basic All Races Playable mod but where the races feel different and complete. The existing All Races Playable, I think most races feel like Dwarves with more limitations and not much new. And Masterwork is great, but it isn't terribly simple for people who can't even play the base game well yet.

Really though, it's hard to answer this question without knowing the extent of the UI changes planned for the steam version. Things like Dwarf Therapist are basically essential IMO. I don't know if that kind of functionality is being built into the game, or if we'll still need the mod.

I don't think we'll see enough added to make a real human/elf site game through modding by the time of the first Steam release.

Could be wrong sure, but it'd need pretty big UI changes to make a real game of it. The whole site game is geared towards digging shapes in the ground right now. Construction of a human town should be as simple as it is in SimCity (why would a human construction crew need to be told they require a roof and walls when you ask them to build a cheese shop?). Not building up walls block at a time (except when you want to design spectacular megaproject buildings).

And you'll still need Therapist (or Manipulator) if you think you need Therapist right now. Labours aren''t getting overhauled until guilds and workshop changes come in (post Big-Wait, confirmed in Reddit Q&A). And Therapist isn't the way Toady wants to go.

[JAK]

Stress disabling, or at least massive reduction. I.e. STRESS_VULNERABILITY:0:0:0 or 0:10:100. Because the stress system right now is a cancer in the body of this game and the experience of playing it.

Every human town I tried to found before changing this myself went down in a riot within 2 years due to rain or snow inundating everyone with bad thoughts. I've also had enemy sieges break on their own because weather makes them go insane. I'm not even talking about freak weather, just mundane rain and snow.

Other than that, if you want to add features like extra items and materials, I think that diversity is great. Utterly redundant diversity is bad as it just clutters up everything. For example I was using the entirety of Stal's armory pack until I read the RAW's and realized a lot of items were identical except for the name. No me gusta.

A lot of features that are in Masterwork right now would be good for new people. Specifically the expanded crafting found in the workshops such as the Gemcutter's Workshop and the workshops that work with blocks rather than the raw materials. In extreme biomes it can make a huge difference to be able to make beds, for example, out of stone, bone or gem rather than only wood.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Stress disabling, or at least massive reduction. I.e. STRESS_VULNERABILITY:0:0:0 or 0:10:100. Because the stress system right now is a cancer in the body of this game and the experience of playing it.

The current stress system isn't the final intended version. It has bugs which due to be fixed long, long before Steam updates even start.

I mean, it might be nice anyhow, for a kind of hold-your-hand easy version. But there's plenty of other raw changes that would help there too.

[Meph]

So... a bit of everything. Easier, harder, less variety, more variety...

[Superdorf]

Everything we already wanted. 

[Shonai_Dweller]

So... a bit of everything. Easier, harder, less variety, more variety...

Yeah, I mean sliders are planned post-Mythgen, but something could set up to mod the raws we have already with a simple interface to achieve a similar effect. Stress, siege triggers, helmet availability in goblin civs, etc, etc. And in the opposite direction too (make elves and humans babysnatchers/thieves, etc).

[JAK]

So... a bit of everything. Easier, harder, less variety, more variety...

No, not at all. The number one thing that is going to stumble new players when the Steam release drops is how massive and complex this game is. I know that because I've introduced multiple people to it in person and I've seen the look on their face and heard the "oh god" when they look at the menus. Any mod that is going to help control for that and let new people push through it and see the wonder in this game will be helpful for growing the community.

Want some specific things? Take those production descriptions that are really rare, like the ones for all instruments, and give them to as many things as possible. Assume nobody will already know what a thing is or what it does in game (which is the more important factor). Even super basic things like chests and chairs.

[Shonai_Dweller]

So... a bit of everything. Easier, harder, less variety, more variety...

No, not at all. The number one thing that is going to stumble new players when the Steam release drops is how massive and complex this game is. I know that because I've introduced multiple people to it in person and I've seen the look on their face and heard the "oh god" when they look at the menus. Any mod that is going to help control for that and let new people push through it and see the wonder in this game will be helpful for growing the community.

Want some specific things? Take those production descriptions that are really rare, like the ones for all instruments, and give them to as many things as possible. Assume nobody will already know what a thing is or what it does in game (which is the more important factor). Even super basic things like chests and chairs.

But if Steam release has a tutorial, that will already help out new players, won't it? So not quite as much need for modding to provide more. Still, any tooltips not included in the UI updates would be good. Doubt we'll find out what's missing until after release though.

[JAK]

But if Steam release has a tutorial, that will already help out new players, won't it?

Not necessarily because that depends on the quality of the tutorial. What even would be the point of making mods specifically for new players that isn't intended to help them transition out of being new? There really isn't any.

[Shonai_Dweller]

But if Steam release has a tutorial, that will already help out new players, won't it?

Not necessarily because that depends on the quality of the tutorial. What even would be the point of making mods specifically for new players that isn't intended to help them transition out of being new? There really isn't any.

I don't know. It's not my thread. Although Meph suggested in his opening post a variation on All races playable mod. So perhaps he's thinking new players might like to have fun with the game too.

As you say, not much point in discussing mods which overcome the limitations of the tutorial when the tutorial hasn't even been made yet.

[Meph]

I'm thinking RTS. DF is a bit weird because you have dwarves and that's it and you have no clear progression, no clear goal, unless you make it up yourself. Which is perfectly fine for Toadys fantasy story generator. But it might be a bit weird for people that are used to "terran vs protoss vs zerg", or warhammer races or Civ/Total War games.

If I add a couple of playable races, people would say "oh, I haven't tried out race X yet", and they might start another fort. If the gameplay mechanics of the races push you towards a certain playstyle (like warlocks which make use of corpses, or elves that are based on seed/plant based industries), the game will get a higher replay value that way.