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Author Topic: WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Turn 5 Revision Phase)  (Read 16503 times)

Jerick

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Re: WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Prewar 1 Design Phase)
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2019, 05:07:43 am »

Quote from: Votebox.
Infiltrator Gear
Hellstrike Plasma Knife (0):

Heavy Assault Gear
Storm Hammer Energy Torpedo Projector (1): Happerry

Light Assault Gear
Spark Electrocarbine (2): Happerry, jerick

Combat Medic Gear
Bubble Barrier Bombs (0):

Engineer Gear
Muninn Surveillance UAVs (0):
Pylon Point Defense Tower (0):

All Class Gear
Blue Burst Magnet Grenade (0):
Pulser Laser Pistol (0):
Sunspitter Pistol (0):
Light Charger Laser Grenade/Mine (0):
Nameless Death SMG (0):

Special Class
Operator (1) Jerick
Remember we need to vote a special class design this turn with one of our designs.
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Happerry

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Re: WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Prewar 1 Design Phase)
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2019, 06:02:04 am »

Remember we need to vote a special class design this turn with one of our designs.

Ahem.

Since everything has been silent for a bit, I'm putting this votebox up, with at least the equipment designs even if we still can't agree on a good class to design.
I did in fact note why I didn't put any class designs into the list, we've got 0% unification on what kind we want so far. Nor have most of the ones discussed in Discord even been written up yet.
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frostgiant

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Re: WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Prewar 1 Design Phase)
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2019, 10:25:02 am »

Quote from: Votebox.
Infiltrator Gear
Hellstrike Plasma Knife (0):

Heavy Assault Gear
Storm Hammer Energy Torpedo Projector (1): Happerry

Light Assault Gear
Spark Electrocarbine (3): Happerry, jerick, Frostgiant

Combat Medic Gear
Bubble Barrier Bombs (0):

Engineer Gear
Muninn Surveillance UAVs (0):
Pylon Point Defense Tower (0):
Anvil Repair Tool (1): Frostgiant

All Class Gear
Blue Burst Magnet Grenade (0):
Pulser Laser Pistol (0):
Sunspitter Pistol (0):
Light Charger Laser Grenade/Mine (0):
Nameless Death SMG (0):

Special Class
Operator (2) Jerick, frostgiant

 I would much rather make an E-War class then an iron man knockoff class.
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Happerry

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Re: WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Prewar 2 Design Phase)
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2019, 04:54:20 pm »

As a general thing, would people be willing to try to at least put a line or two up for their reasoning when they vote on items? Even it it's only "I agree with what Person Z Said."? It's really hard to make arguments or have general discussion over what would be good to vote when you don't know why people are voting as they are.
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Jerick

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Re: WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Prewar 2 Design Phase)
« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2019, 06:44:29 am »

Yeah you can't have a proper argument with votes alone.

Spark Electrocarbine; This is an interesting weapon and has more potential in my opinion than a more conventional carbine. It also fills a gaping hole in our arsenal that being short range engagements. We will lose a lot of fights if that gap isn't filled.

The operator; The Achilles heel of fast mobile warfare (the kind we've decided to specialise in) is poor intelligence. Having poor intel on the enemy utterly removes most of the advantages of being able to move about the battlefield more freely than our enemies. This is why the operator with their expendable surveillance drones and ewar gear is exactly the kind of unit we want to be attached to our frontline forces in order to give them intel gathering which in turn makes them very flexible. Out manoeuvring the enemy becomes easy when you know precisely where they are. It is my opinion that an info gathering class will do us far more good than any big stompy max variant. In addition, max variants are predictable it's possible our enemies might be prepared for fighting maxes. As for our forces if they deploy maxes against us unless they're noticably faster than standard we can counter them with high powered sniper weaponry and mobility.
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Madman198237

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Re: WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Prewar 1 Design Phase)
« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2019, 12:23:46 pm »

Quote
Rampage Main Battle Tank
Based around an upscaled and fully stabilized Illuminator capable of opening up most tanks with nonstop continuous beam fire, the Rampage MBT is our solution to that age-old question: "what if the enemy has really big tanks and is trying to kill us with them?" The Rampage is, primarily, fast. Its layered armor is engineered to have a surface reflective enough and capable of dissipating enough heat to survive an Illuminator burn, while the underlying hardened ceramic and metal can defeat a similarly-powerful projectile. Not much more than one in the same spot, though, since every hit breaks through more layers of the composite until it's useless.

Spare power from the two reactors (gun reactor and drive reactor) is utilized to keep a bank of supercapacitors charged. These serve as the shield reserve, intended to be powerful enough to double survivability without adding too much weight to the vehicle. If the armor is nearly breached, the shield system activates to protect the vehicle from destruction or crippling damage, allowing the crew time to maneuver their vehicle to present undamaged armor to the opponent, flee, or abandon the vehicle.

The drive is powered by a miniature reactor capable of sending the Rampage down the roads at speeds nearly comparable to our buggy, while its durable tracks and power allow it to make extremely high speed offroad. Turning, stopping, and acceleration are all very fast due to its power and light weight, making the Rampage far more maneuverable than our enemies could ever dream of being.

Finally, the gun system. Based on the Illuminator and powered by a second small power source in the armored box at the back of the turret, this weapon is capable of continuous fire for an extended period of time. Swap the power mode down to "thaw" instead of "bake" and you can sweep the beam back and forth across the battlefield indefinitely, killing infantry and forcing armored vehicles to button up and disabling camera systems and periscopes. If the gunner pushes the switch to "bonfire" instead the capacitors can be drained in a few seconds, allowing for a devastating burst, at the cost of heating the mechanisms and requiring time to build up charge again. The turret is powered by the drive reactor and can be computer-guided to keep the laser right on target even if the tank and its target are bouncing around over rough terrain. There is an optional RCWS mounting on the top, next to the commander's hatch and controlled by him, though without a really decent weapon to use right now that station is usually just filled with our standard infantry laser MG. The main gun's low-powered mode is used in place of a coaxial light weapon.


Quote from: Votebox.
Infiltrator Gear
Hellstrike Plasma Knife (0):

Heavy Assault Gear
Storm Hammer Energy Torpedo Projector (1): Happerry

Light Assault Gear
Spark Electrocarbine (3): Happerry, jerick, Frostgiant

Combat Medic Gear
Bubble Barrier Bombs (0):

Engineer Gear
Muninn Surveillance UAVs (0):
Pylon Point Defense Tower (0):
Anvil Repair Tool (1): Frostgiant

All Class Gear
Blue Burst Magnet Grenade (0):
Pulser Laser Pistol (0):
Sunspitter Pistol (0):
Light Charger Laser Grenade/Mine (0):
Nameless Death SMG (0):
Rampage MBT: (1) Madman

Special Class
Operator (3) Jerick, frostgiant, Madman

Withholding vote on Special Class for now since I want to review the operator class. For now, though, how about we hammer out a nice MBT?

And important note: The Achilles' heel of blitzkrieg warfare is NOT intelligence. The advancing force will generally have better intel than the defending force, more highly mobile assets means more recon capability means more intel, and so on. The Achilles' heel of this style of warfare is LOGISTICS. But a special class designed for crippling the enemy and winning EWAR is not a bad idea, and will give us the intel advantage, amongst others.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 10:59:35 pm by Madman198237 »
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Jerick

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Re: WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Prewar 2 Design Phase)
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2019, 02:30:18 pm »

Mobile warfare is not blitzkrieg tactics. Blitzkrieg is one form of mobile warfare but it is far from the only one and certainly the form that first jumps to most people's minds, it did leave quite an impression after all. But there are other types. Primarily the form I most envision us using is one were we use superior speed and range to keep the enemy at an engagement distance that is disadvantageous to them. With sufficient speed of redeployment, we'd be able to manoeuvre around their advances and dictate the positions and terrain we engage over. Unlike blitzkrieg, this form of war is very dependant on accurate and recent intel and may suit us far better than blitzkrieg tactics. This is because blitzkrieg will require solid front line tanks and infantry that can effectively assault fortified but isolated enemy positions. This isn't to say we can't make our forces better suited to blitzkrieg. We'd need a few good infantry weapons that are good at short-medium range, a good MBT (yes such as the rampage) and something to cause a little chaos behind their lines (airpower or infiltrators might be good). Doable but vulnerable against any faction that has a tank or a CQC focus and it wouldn't play to our strengths of long range.
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Madman198237

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Re: WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Prewar 2 Design Phase)
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2019, 08:28:13 pm »

You're right that there are more ways of waging mobile warfare than blitzkrieg and I shouldn't have simplified like that. Regardless, my point stands. Being the more mobile force who will be working on the defensive the least, we will not lack accurate intel.

We will be working fast, not tied down to any fixed defenses or one line of attack and capable of reorienting based on the strength of enemy responses...which is blitzkrieg warfare. The Germans utilized a tactic called the "recce pull" or "recon pull", the idea that units engage all over the front, but when one unit breaks through or finds a weak point, it calls for backup and "pulls" the reserves and the rest of the frontline units in behind it to widen the gap and then disrupt the enemy logistics behind. They did NOT focus on strong points or super heavy forces or having the best infantry or anything, they used mobile airborne infantry to break strongpoints and followed that up with motorized infantry and armored wedges.

*At least, during the first part of the war. Later it became different as they were on the defensive and ill-equipped for that role.

We have an excellent medium to long range weapon, we need a shorter ranged weapon to help with those times when you actually do need to get close, we'll need to either ensure that we have enough tanks and other heavy-weapon vehicles to support our infantry (Illuminator buggies would probably work great for this, actually, though they're not Cheap and thus probably not good enough in availability) OR we need a heavy destructive weapon for our infantry...and we need air mobile units, meaning some way to air-drop buggies and a hypothetical medium MRAP vehicle (kind of like a Humvee, if Humvees were actually MRAP and carried a decent number of guys) or medium fast APC, and large numbers of troops at least, if not capable of air-dropping tanks.

EDIT: Adjusted previous votebox, added a vote for the "Operator" class. Though can we at least call it the "Electronics Specialist" or "Information Warfare Expert" or literally anything less generic than "Operator" (which normally refers to a generic soldier type guy anyway)?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 08:39:02 pm by Madman198237 »
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dgr11897

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Re: WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Prewar 1 Design Phase)
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2019, 11:02:29 pm »

Quote from: Votebox.
Infiltrator Gear
Hellstrike Plasma Knife (0):

Heavy Assault Gear
Storm Hammer Energy Torpedo Projector (1): Happerry

Light Assault Gear
Spark Electrocarbine (3): Happerry, jerick, Frostgiant

Combat Medic Gear
Bubble Barrier Bombs (0):

Engineer Gear
Muninn Surveillance UAVs (0):
Pylon Point Defense Tower (0):
Anvil Repair Tool (1): Frostgiant

All Class Gear
Blue Burst Magnet Grenade (0):
Pulser Laser Pistol (0):
Sunspitter Pistol (0):
Light Charger Laser Grenade/Mine (0):
Nameless Death SMG (0):
Rampage MBT: (2) Madman, DGR

Special Class
Operator (4) Jerick, frostgiant, Madman
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Man of Paper

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WarBiz Arms Race // Victory Services Thread (Prewar 2 Revision Phase)
« Reply #69 on: May 27, 2019, 06:57:32 pm »

GM Note: Don't make me dig through previous turns to find proposals. If you want to resuggest something it isn't that hard to copy/paste during the relevant phase - or link to it in the votebox.

Prewar 2 Design Phase


Proposal: Spark Electrocarbine
Difficulty: Theoretical
Result: (4+2)-3=3, Buggy Mess

The Spark Electrocarbine is our first attempt at making a close-range weapon and it shows. Using poorly guided electrical charges winds up with shots very often arcing off-target. It's power pack, which is prone to overheating during extended use, allows for between 10 and 20 shots before needing time to recharge, which can take anywhere between five seconds and an entire minute. By attempting to make a variable charge for tazing targets around cover (a laughable, absolutely unnecessary function - if the weapon could arc around cover, why waste time stunning targets first?) we only managed to screw up the limiters for consistent power usage per shot. If you're looking for an alpha-strike weapon that's only reliably effective in Melee Range, this is your gun. Otherwise, well, you're much better off with anything that actually works.

The Spark Electrocarbine is (VERY EXPENSIVE) and limited to use by Light Assaults.


Proposal: Operator Class (+Siren Comms Unit, +Sky Eye Light Recon Drone)
Difficulty: Theoretical
Results: (4+4)-3=5 (6+5)-3=8, Average

The Operator is meant to complement our primary combat forces by providing in-depth intel on enemy combatants. Simply put, they are trained and specialize in acting as our military's eyes and ears while blinding and deafening our enemies.

We may have fucked up by deciding to design two separate items for the class, but luckily our engineers weren't completely incompetent and focused on the one that most directly impacted the Operator.

The Basic Siren Comms Unit is capable of picking up signals and transmissions from our enemies and cracking any encryption they apply, at least currently. The comms unit is able to pick out signals within 200 meters of the Operator. A small terminal on the forearm allows the user to try hacking into enemy electronics but the process requires a constant connection, so target equipment needs to stay within range of the Operator. Unfortunately we didn't have time to add protection to our own devices since we decided to also diddle with some auxiliary equipment (if it was class-defining then you could only either equip the drones OR the comms unit, but they're supposed to work together so I imagine that's undesired), so currently we're as vulnerable to electronic warfare as we imagine our opponents are.

The Basic Siren Comms Unit is considered (VERY EXPENSIVE) and is considered Class-Defining Equipment for the Operator Class.


----------------


IT IS NOW THE REVISION PHASE. You have TWO REVISIONS to utilize as you see fit.


Spoiler: VS Armory (click to show/hide)
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Madman198237

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Quote
Bane Heavy Autolaser
Based on the Scourge laser machinegun, the Bane is just what it says on the tin. It's bigger, roughly equivalent to a .50 caliber machinegun, capable of killing an armored man (armored according to roughly modern standards) in a single hit, it draws a lot of extra power from the vehicle it's attached, and it's got a bulky cooling system, again powered by the mounting vehicle. It's not really suitable for infantry use but if you're really desperate you can still use it on foot. You're just going to burn through the power pack, the barrel, and your muscles trying to hold the thing up.

Right now, the Bane is an option for the Tormentor buggy and can replace the turret on the Einherjar.

Quote
Desert Rat Ruggedized Buggy
Based on the Tormentor chassis, the Desert Rat is bigger, capable of deploying an entire special forces team and carrying a heavy mount (Phantom or similar heavy weapon) on top of the roll cage in the turret position and a lighter one (Scourge for now) in the seat next to the driver. The engine is similarly upscaled to reduce the loss in performance. The weapons and the enhanced carrying capacity grant the Desert Rat the ability to deploy fast, long-ranged, and well armed for long-duration reconnaissance missions or raids behind enemy lines. The use of heavier structural steel also improves survivability, though the accepted practice of taking incoming fire is to "drive faster".

Slightly modified the Bane to be a little better, here's a proposal to make something better out of the Tormentor, something capable of fulfilling a role other than "professional nuisance" and "heavy weapons transport platform".

Quote
Universal Equipment
Bane Heavy Autolaser: (1) Madman
Desert Rat Ruggedized Buggy: (1) Madman

I think these should both be universal, but maybe not? I'm really not sure.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 07:17:33 pm by Madman198237 »
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dgr11897

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Quote
Universal Equipment
Bane Heavy Autolaser: (2) Madman, DGR
Desert Rat Ruggedized Buggy: (2) Madman, DGR
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Light forger

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Scourge Coolant and Power Pack
Noting issues with the scourge overheating as well as it's bulky size the SCPP is designed to fix this. The SCPP replaces the built in heat sinks and energy bank with a backpack design to make the actual gun lighter and easier to use. Both the coolant and the power is supplied by a tube linking the pack to the weapon with replacement tubing on the pack itself. Noting that for some reason our current weapon lacks a bipod is adding even if we aren't expecting to be all that great.

Breach Light Transport Vehicle
Noting a lack of any transport vehicle the Breach is designed to slap a bandaid over that wound. The Breach is little more then a Tormentor that trades it's speed in favor of medium size flatbed. The flatbed includes six folding seats that soldiers only sometimes fall out of. The passenger seat now has a simple "universal pintle mount" which is in no way a vice able to hold most infantry size weapons. It's armored with light armor roughly on par with the Einherjar. The lack of a full blown design cycle means the Breach is slower then the torment however this works out as without redesigning the suspension and chassis the vehicle would likely break with the Tormentor's full speed.

My main issues with both revisions is they feel too close to full blown designs. On the easier side of designs yes but, I think a more conservative approach is warranted.

Quote from: Revisions
Universal Equipment
Bane Heavy Autolaser: (2) Madman, DGR
Desert Rat Ruggedized Buggy: (2) Madman, DGR
Breach Light Transport Vehicle: (1) Lightforger

Heavy Assault
Scourge Coolant and Power Pack: (1) Lightforger
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 10:53:48 pm by Light forger »
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Madman198237

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The Bane is definitely not a full design of effort, though I can definitely understand your concerns for the Desert Rat. I would argue, however, that if we don't try we'll never know.

And besides, it's not like we can't redo it *if* it turns out to be a failure.
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Happerry

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Quote from: Revisions
Universal Equipment
Bane Heavy Autolaser: (3) Madman, DGR, Happerry
Desert Rat Ruggedized Buggy: (3) Madman, DGR, Happerry
Breach Light Transport Vehicle: (1) Lightforger

Heavy Assault
Scourge Coolant and Power Pack: (1) Lightforger
Better to aim for the sky then for a hill, in my opinion.
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GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
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