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Poll

What would you like to see expanded upon in this mod? (read POLL DETAILS at the bottom of the first post)

Diseases
- 9 (18.8%)
Poisons
- 12 (25%)
Drugs
- 9 (18.8%)
Demonic Blessings & Curses
- 14 (29.2%)
Other (comment suggestion)
- 4 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 26


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Author Topic: [47.04] Goblin Fortress v2.2  (Read 16257 times)

Meph

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2019, 01:41:35 pm »

Use GREETING as usage hint; make the range 500; make the target number 500; remove line-of-sight if it's there. That will easily be enough to reach your fort members.

Try DEMON_1:DEFAULT for the transformation, although you might get an errorlog about that creature not existing, because the errorlog will be written before the world is fully done. Worst case, the guy just transforms into a toad.
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brolol.404

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2019, 01:54:18 pm »

Use GREETING as usage hint; make the range 500; make the target number 500; remove line-of-sight if it's there. That will easily be enough to reach your fort members.

Try DEMON_1:DEFAULT for the transformation, although you might get an errorlog about that creature not existing, because the errorlog will be written before the world is fully done. Worst case, the guy just transforms into a toad.

Thanks. I tried DEMON_1:DEFAULT before as a summon for this mod and it didn't seem to do anything but I'll try it again. I could make the demon a required unit to create all other nobility positions to force the player to transform a goblin into one at the beginning.

So first build a 5x5 grand demon shrine workshop (requires boulders and corpse parts) and then summon the demon overlord with a goblin sacrifice (transformation reaction)

Meph

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2019, 02:06:09 pm »

If he dies, you have no more nobles. ;)

Unless the syndrome class token has a timer that eventually runs out.
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brolol.404

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2019, 02:31:22 pm »

If he dies, you have no more nobles. ;)

Unless the syndrome class token has a timer that eventually runs out.

I kind of like that mechanic lol basically protect your overlord with your life. If he dies the fort descends into chaos. He is the lifeblood of the fort and the most important part of the fortress.

I could put a really long timer on it though (like a year). So you can technically pull yourself out of ruin and start again with a new overlord assuming the fort hasn't completely collapsed lol

brolol.404

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2019, 07:15:26 pm »

I dont know how I missed it, but I just saw this post.

Had a look at your raws.

"Ferment corpse" needs [PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150].

It, and other reactions, seem to requires INORGANIC (?) corpses. [REAGENT:A:5:CORPSE:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:NONE] Just be definition, corpses are organic, and are usually either counted as muscle or bone material. Depends what the creature had more of. I assume it somehow still works (otherwise you wouldn'T have release it), but in theory it really shouldn't.

"create necrotic poison" also lacks the 150 product dimension.
Thanks. Ill add the product dimension tags.

I don't know why the reactions work, but they do lol

Currently, goblins pick up random body parts off the ground to use (arms, legs, etc.) Should I change it to ORGANIC?

Did you get the armored animals thing from an Armorman from another mod? ^^
Yea. I asked for help with it in the general discussion post and got the tip, so I used that as a base and edited it to what I wanted. I'm going to remove it now though. It is somewhat clunky in practice.

I would advice never to use [SKILL:MINING], hunting/ambusher, fishing, beekeeping or woodcutting in a reaction. Dwarves have a hard time ignoring designations when they have to pick between workshop and running around the map to get to designated mining areas/trees to be cut down, etc. To make sure that the reaction is done; players would have to remove all active mining designations for example. It's also a reaction that added to the vanilla DF masons shop, which exclusively uses MASONRY, which might confuse players, because their mason isn't making that stone anvil he wanted. At the very least, add a [DESCRIPTION:Skill - Mining] to it to help the player. Not sure if it's intentional, but people can make unlimited free clay anvils btw. ;)
Good tip thanks. I will change it to MASONRY. I didnt know that about clay anvils, but that is cool lol

You made the cave rats legendary climbers, but left their climbing giat    [APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_CLIMBING_GAITS:2990:2257:1525:731:4300:6100] 12 kph at the default speed. ;)
I figured that these were independent of each other. Should I change the gait?

I assume the armored creatures have [NO_GENDER] to avoid giving birth?
Correct. It would be odd to birth a new armored creature. These are going to be removed anyway though

Firejet and dragonfirebreath using castes without fire-immunity will very quickly kill themselves.
Yeah. I thought it was funny lol Also going to remove this caste and other magic though

I love the goblin_hostile creature. Naturally armed and armored, with those tags?
Code: [Select]
[OPPOSED_TO_LIFE]
[LARGE_ROAMING][FREQUENCY:60]
[BIOME:ALL_MAIN]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:50:500]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:10:100]

That's some interesting encounters in EVIL regions. Btw, EVIL doesn't extend down to the caverns, so to get the underground versions to show, maybe put them in a LAYER_LINKED entity. :)
Yeah. I really like watching a horde of goblins stroll across the map as an unofficial raiding party.

I am going to remove the armor variants though. (edit: also going to remove the cavern spawns)

That's it. Sorry, I didn't mean to nitpick, just went through the raws once to have a look and those are the things I noticed.
I really appreciate you looking through it and I appreciate any and all feedback! Thanks for taking the time. Let me know if you have any other feedback.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 07:18:58 pm by brolol.404 »
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brolol.404

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v1.0
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2019, 07:41:28 pm »

Using custom positions for goblins is quite fun, with enough progress you can call the [MONARCH] demon leader because of prefixed tags on the invisible role you can overwrite in a identical fashion to the hard-coded dwarven monarch.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I realized that I don't currently have the [MONARCH] position in this mod (which I thought I did). I'm going to add it and test it out. I am debating between going this route and having the player "summon" a demon overlord from the start. This route probably makes more sense

brolol.404

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2019, 08:17:37 pm »

v2.0 released to remove some of the more clunky aspects of the mod.

brolol.404

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2019, 08:28:17 am »

I have been having a lot of fun with this mod since it's creation a few months ago but have been having a real hard time seeing it's future direction and final identity. I finally think I have figured out what to do with this mod though.

As initially intended, I plan to keep this mod simple and vanilla-esc while allowing the player to use everything available to dwarves. The other goal was to make goblins feel like a different experience so obviously some changes had to be made to vanilla like giving goblins carnivore and bone items.

So, unless someone has something that they really want to see added to this mod or has a suggestion these will be the final changes before I consider this mod complete:

> change worgs to wolves
> remove meat alcohol
> add a reaction that turns corpses into blood (as a water substitute)
> remove neurotic poison
> double rate of fighter skill
> double rust rate of fighter skill
(these two changes will make goblins level fighter faster than dwarves, but also require consistent training to keep those levels)
> increase bonecarver and butchery skill rates
> decrease carpentry and masonry skill rates

I plan to work on a similar mod for humans in the future. It will be another simple mod that allows the player to use everything available to dwarves, but it will make changes to force humans onto the surface (like making them much slower miners, but better farmers, woodcutters, carpenters, etc.) This mod will also not touch any vanilla files.

brolol.404

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2019, 07:15:10 pm »

I am working on an update to this mod so I decided to add a poll to this thread on what area(s) that you guys would like to see this mod expanded in.

I appreciate the feedback/suggestions.

POLL DETAILS
What would you like to see expanded upon in this mod:
> Diseases: Turn the goblin pits into disgusting and festering pits of disease and filth by adding at least a dozen more common diseases that spread quickly among the population. These would include: plagues, blights, infections and small creatures like fleas as well as filth and grime.
> Poisons: Turn the goblin pits into a place of espionage and assassination by creating a dozen or so poisons that can be conveniently dumped into the rooms of the intended target or brought into a tavern to infect an entire group of visitors/citizens.
> Drugs: Turn the goblin pits into a place of hardship and chaos as commoners fiend for their next fix, laborers work non-stop in drug induced trances and warriors fight in narcotic frenzies.
> Demonic Blessings & Curses: Turn the goblin pits into a place of demonic worship. Fanatics build altars, shrines and monuments for abyssal gifts from their demonic lords.
> Other (comment suggestion)

DerMeister

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2019, 04:00:08 am »

I am working on an update to this mod so I decided to add a poll to this thread on what area(s) that you guys would like to see this mod expanded in.

I appreciate the feedback/suggestions.

POLL DETAILS
What would you like to see expanded upon in this mod:
> Diseases: Turn the goblin pits into disgusting and festering pits of disease and filth by adding at least a dozen more common diseases that spread quickly among the population. These would include: plagues, blights, infections and small creatures like fleas as well as filth and grime.
> Poisons: Turn the goblin pits into a place of espionage and assassination by creating a dozen or so poisons that can be conveniently dumped into the rooms of the intended target or brought into a tavern to infect an entire group of visitors/citizens.
> Drugs: Turn the goblin pits into a place of hardship and chaos as commoners fiend for their next fix, laborers work non-stop in drug induced trances and warriors fight in narcotic frenzies.
> Demonic Blessings & Curses: Turn the goblin pits into a place of demonic worship. Fanatics build altars, shrines and monuments for abyssal gifts from their demonic lords.
> Other (comment suggestion)
Avoiding of dfhack not give you new features. But using dfhack can add ability to poison weapons. And other intersting elements. Also I suggest more trolls. Servant tweaking is good, but goblins use not only trolls (in vanilla they also have ogres, blizzard men and maneras). As they shear trolls, they could milk ogresses or use ogres as mounts/pullers. Milking sapients needs dfhack script for work.

With scripts, you can add workshops for creating blizzard men and grimelings. For blizzard men creating player need cold temperature and snow/ice, for grimelings player need plants and grimeling will be made of this plant material.

Goblins as analogue of cats can have hungry head. As analogue both cat and dog goblins can have stranglers.

Harpies, blendecs and nightwings isn't slow learners, but can be heroes and you can make "domestication"/enslaving/teaching of wild harpies, blendecs and nightwings in dark fortress mode. What about milking harpies?

Demon leader probably can make underground elemantmen in workshops or as necromancer with transforming (for blood men or mud men).

Also goblins could corrupt stolen childred into night troll like species of servants.
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brolol.404

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2019, 09:36:19 am »

Avoiding of dfhack not give you new features. But using dfhack can add ability to poison weapons. And other intersting elements. Also I suggest more trolls. Servant tweaking is good, but goblins use not only trolls (in vanilla they also have ogres, blizzard men and maneras). As they shear trolls, they could milk ogresses or use ogres as mounts/pullers. Milking sapients needs dfhack script for work.

With scripts, you can add workshops for creating blizzard men and grimelings. For blizzard men creating player need cold temperature and snow/ice, for grimelings player need plants and grimeling will be made of this plant material.

Goblins as analogue of cats can have hungry head. As analogue both cat and dog goblins can have stranglers.

Harpies, blendecs and nightwings isn't slow learners, but can be heroes and you can make "domestication"/enslaving/teaching of wild harpies, blendecs and nightwings in dark fortress mode. What about milking harpies?

Demon leader probably can make underground elemantmen in workshops or as necromancer with transforming (for blood men or mud men).

Also goblins could corrupt stolen childred into night troll like species of servants.

I actually don't use dfhack when I play (unless I am using a specific mod that requires it or some sort of special playthrough) as it slows down my game and crashes often. So, I don't plan on making my Fortress mods reliant of dfhack. I think Meph was talking about creating a goblin mod with dfhack though to add new game mechanics.

I could add poisons without dfhack though. Arrows (of any material) and a poison could be turned into "poison arrow" at a workshop. The new arrow material could have the poison syndrome attached to it. I could do the same with a few other weapons (poison dart, poison dagger, poison blade, etc.) Or I could add an ability to altars, shrines and monuments to add a chance for a weapon made out of demonic/abyssal material to spawn from an offering. This demonic material would have a necrotic/poisonous syndrome.

Currently this mod has Trolls and Ogres as pets, but I will add manera and blizzard men to the next update. I'll also add WAGON_PULLER to trolls and ogres. Although potentially accurate in the goblin culture (and probably valid), milking sapient creatures like ogres for drinkable milk is too weird/gross (for my own personal views) to add to the game.

I will also add slow learner grimelings and make them a pet and change "worg" to ice wolf to keep with vanilla. I will also remove the aquatic tag (and add the no breathe tag) from sea monsters and add them as a pet. They will be very slow/immobile on land, but can be pastured in a pit (which can then be flooded for a sea monster moat/tank).

I'll add hungry head and strangler as pets too.

I'll add harpies, foul blenders, dark gnomes and night wings to the goblin civilizations. They will show up in the pet tab though similiar to the others (e.g. trolls, ogres, etc.) and can be bought/sold/pastured and help with menial labor (building/stockpiling).

I will add mud men and blood men with slow learner as pets too to go along with the blizzard men and grimelings.

I could add a unique poison that transforms creatures that drink it into demonic creatures or some sort of abomination. It wouldn't be unique to children though. You would have to pasture the creatures you want to drink it into a room with that drink in it and then lock the door. When the "pets" get thirsty they will drink it and transform.

Thanks for the ideas :) these are good

Meph

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2019, 11:41:38 am »

Quote
(which can then be flooded for a sea monster moat/tank)
if I remember correctly, they will instantly walk out of the flooded area once water levels go higher than 3/7. "Dangerous terrain" and all that.
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brolol.404

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2019, 12:11:20 pm »

Quote
(which can then be flooded for a sea monster moat/tank)
if I remember correctly, they will instantly walk out of the flooded area once water levels go higher than 3/7. "Dangerous terrain" and all that.
I wonder if the pit was made two z levels deep with a bridge or locked door at one end and the sea monster was given CANNOT_CLIMB and CANNOT_JUMP they would be trapped in there as the water rose

Meph

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2019, 12:23:09 pm »

Yes, that works. As long as they can't pathfind out of there.
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::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

DerMeister

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Re: [44.12] Goblin Fortress v2.0
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2019, 05:20:27 pm »

Avoiding of dfhack not give you new features. But using dfhack can add ability to poison weapons. And other intersting elements. Also I suggest more trolls. Servant tweaking is good, but goblins use not only trolls (in vanilla they also have ogres, blizzard men and maneras). As they shear trolls, they could milk ogresses or use ogres as mounts/pullers. Milking sapients needs dfhack script for work.

With scripts, you can add workshops for creating blizzard men and grimelings. For blizzard men creating player need cold temperature and snow/ice, for grimelings player need plants and grimeling will be made of this plant material.

Goblins as analogue of cats can have hungry head. As analogue both cat and dog goblins can have stranglers.

Harpies, blendecs and nightwings isn't slow learners, but can be heroes and you can make "domestication"/enslaving/teaching of wild harpies, blendecs and nightwings in dark fortress mode. What about milking harpies?

Demon leader probably can make underground elemantmen in workshops or as necromancer with transforming (for blood men or mud men).

Also goblins could corrupt stolen childred into night troll like species of servants.

I actually don't use dfhack when I play (unless I am using a specific mod that requires it or some sort of special playthrough) as it slows down my game and crashes often. So, I don't plan on making my Fortress mods reliant of dfhack. I think Meph was talking about creating a goblin mod with dfhack though to add new game mechanics.

I could add poisons without dfhack though. Arrows (of any material) and a poison could be turned into "poison arrow" at a workshop. The new arrow material could have the poison syndrome attached to it. I could do the same with a few other weapons (poison dart, poison dagger, poison blade, etc.) Or I could add an ability to altars, shrines and monuments to add a chance for a weapon made out of demonic/abyssal material to spawn from an offering. This demonic material would have a necrotic/poisonous syndrome.

Currently this mod has Trolls and Ogres as pets, but I will add manera and blizzard men to the next update. I'll also add WAGON_PULLER to trolls and ogres. Although potentially accurate in the goblin culture (and probably valid), milking sapient creatures like ogres for drinkable milk is too weird/gross (for my own personal views) to add to the game.

I will also add slow learner grimelings and make them a pet and change "worg" to ice wolf to keep with vanilla. I will also remove the aquatic tag (and add the no breathe tag) from sea monsters and add them as a pet. They will be very slow/immobile on land, but can be pastured in a pit (which can then be flooded for a sea monster moat/tank).

I'll add hungry head and strangler as pets too.

I'll add harpies, foul blenders, dark gnomes and night wings to the goblin civilizations. They will show up in the pet tab though similiar to the others (e.g. trolls, ogres, etc.) and can be bought/sold/pastured and help with menial labor (building/stockpiling).

I will add mud men and blood men with slow learner as pets too to go along with the blizzard men and grimelings.

I could add a unique poison that transforms creatures that drink it into demonic creatures or some sort of abomination. It wouldn't be unique to children though. You would have to pasture the creatures you want to drink it into a room with that drink in it and then lock the door. When the "pets" get thirsty they will drink it and transform.

Thanks for the ideas :) these are good
Vanilla goblins eat sapient meat and wear clothes made of sapient troll yarn. So they can milk ogress. In my mod, they not milk ogresses, rodent women and harpies only because bug. Before one dfhack modder will make for me special plugin, I add milk to giant rats and rutherers.

In vanilla sapient creatures (except some) have no pet value, this is exploit. Also in older versions some sapient creatures had value modifiers for materials (not just copy, try rebalance as other creatures rebalanced). Sapient creatures, who cannot equips, must have bashful 0:0:0 for preventing bad thoughts without clothes.

Poison wersions is better, but how you will do this?

Not add altar because goblins have no religion. You can add alchemic laboratory for demon (only demon can work). In alchemic laboratory they will make grimeling like creatures in further version and transform stone into slade in current version.

You can add no breathe to sea monster without removing aquatic. Or you can change aquatic to amphibious.

For working slow learners (and pets), without dfhack, you can add to this slow learners a very small natural skills. 
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