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Author Topic: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY  (Read 52541 times)

Persus13

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #360 on: September 04, 2019, 08:37:04 pm »

At one point I was thinking of fakeclaiming roleblocker because I knew Pooka was one, but decided against it because that would be too complicated.

My main strategy for determining if NJW was scum was seeing how Naturegirl reacted, so her blue voting NJW initially actually made me second guess things. I also considered the possibility of Superdorf being NJW's buddy, but I figured it was less likely.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #361 on: September 04, 2019, 08:39:33 pm »

I’m hoping next game I play I get Town, since I clearly suck at being scum
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4maskwolf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: Day Three: Got a Light?
« Reply #362 on: September 04, 2019, 08:44:40 pm »

I know your question wasn't addressed to me, but my message was basically that NJW had an uphill battle to convince me that Superdorf fakeclaimed 15 minutes after day started. I could see 4mask trying that though.

Also my GG y'all was totally me messing with you guys.
I'm never going to lose that reputation am I?

I’m hoping next game I play I get Town, since I clearly suck at being scum
You'll learn.  Mafia is a learning process, even for someone like me who's been playing for over five years.  I was pretty bad when I first started too.

4maskwolf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #363 on: September 04, 2019, 08:53:58 pm »

Double-post to add a link to the deadchat, as little as there was in it.

Superdorf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #364 on: September 04, 2019, 08:55:42 pm »

I’m hoping next game I play I get Town, since I clearly suck at being scum

I've played three games and never rolled scum, and I dread the day I do... that kind of eloquent lie-weaving under pressure sounds like an absolute nightmare to pull off. (Ah well. I'll try to have fun with it.)

You did just fine. I had you pegged as town all through the second half of D1 and the first half of D2-- there was too much information flying about, was all, and NJW dragged you down with him. The odds were not in your favour.

Now there is one thing I don't yet understand... why'd you claim bodyguard?
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #365 on: September 04, 2019, 10:10:14 pm »

You thought two doctors was unlikely
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Superdorf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #366 on: September 04, 2019, 10:13:56 pm »

Mm, fair enough. Clearly it wasn't that unlikely!
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IonMatrix

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #367 on: September 05, 2019, 05:51:05 am »

I won! Yay?

I definitely  learned a lot. The only thing that sucked was that I got lynched on d1. :( For some reason I feel like if I was alive I wouldve screwed up the whole game. :-X
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IonMatrix

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #368 on: September 05, 2019, 05:52:39 am »

I am looking forward to the next game, which sadly probably won't be happening for some time.
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Superdorf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #369 on: September 05, 2019, 07:17:28 am »

The only thing that sucked was that I got lynched on d1. :( For some reason I feel like if I was alive I wouldve screwed up the whole game. :-X
That lynch came from ill luck on your part, and a grave mistake on mine-- no more, no less. (One of your voters was mafia, after all!) You needn't beat yourself up about it...
...and you needn't think you'd have messed up the rest of the game! You had an interesting role and lots of enthusiasm-- your presence would've shaken up LyLo in all sorts of fun ways, methinks.
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Pooka

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #370 on: September 05, 2019, 08:06:59 am »

NJW:
The maneuver was something I kind of trapped myself into... it ended up being the most plausible claim I could make to save myself. I wasn't actually too concerned about Naturegirl being lynched, though I would have preferred that it didn't happen. I'll explain why I did it:
To be fair, I'd have bussed Naturegirl if I were in your place. When she flipped scum, you'd have earned town-cred, and you'd also get a new angle of attack on Day 3: "Pooka didn't want a Naturegirl lynch on Day 1, and she flipped scum...I wonder why that is?"

Even I would have believed you were for real. To be fair, even while I had concrete evidence that Naturegirl is scum, I had doubts that Persus or Superdorf were actually the scum I was looking for. The fact that Persus voted on you instead of with you told me all I needed to know about his being a townie, leaving Superdorf...and while scum implicating scum is a thing, something about him told me that he's town.

Also, any thoughts on my play style? I think I did well, but there's certainly areas where I can do better.
You seemed like a really strong player, I was scared of you. Well done for mentioning the correct scumteam d1!

One thing that I might say about your scumhunting is that I never consciously tried to "pocket" you - I just mentioned your early mechanical speculation to make it seem like I'd done more than skimread it. But my motives there weren't entirely townie in any case, and you picked up on that.
Heh, I did THAT well. Back when I was scum, I was terrified when someone said my scumbuddy was a likely candidate for scum. I can only imagine what it's been like having the scumteam figured out. On Day 1.

Funnily enough, I wasn't consciously doing the pocketing in the game I played as scum either. The player I was pocketing mentioned it late in the game and, it was then that I actually relied on doing it more. One of the ways I did it was to praise that other player. When you repeatedly brought my analysis, a chord struck and I knew something was fishy about it.


Superdorf:
Hm, on that note... I've noticed I tend to just kinda, erm, wither under any sort of pressure. I develop this sort of nervous lazy-apathy-- I become reluctant to say anything at all for fear of saying the wrong thing. Is there anything I can do to change that? Or is it just something I have to get out of my system with practice?
I'd say wrong things and get corrected for them. Chances are you'll know what to say and what to not say as any alignment, but first you actually need to be wrong to know what is wrong.


Persus:
At one point I was thinking of fakeclaiming roleblocker because I knew Pooka was one, but decided against it because that would be too complicated.

My main strategy for determining if NJW was scum was seeing how Naturegirl reacted, so her blue voting NJW initially actually made me second guess things. I also considered the possibility of Superdorf being NJW's buddy, but I figured it was less likely.
Yeah...that would have resulted in a mess. You're a strong player, and I can see you probably had a plan and reason for doing it, but the risk of mislynch looks murderous. But by our mass claims and how they interconnected with each other, we had a great picture of Night 2. A web of actions being done where only NJW is the missing link.

Also, I'm glad to see that someone else thought Naturegirl was connected with NJW in one way or another! The blue voting NJW struck me as bussing, and what better lead to that other than her red voting myself in her very next post? She should have continued pursuing NJW, making it appear less likely that these two are scumbuddies.



Naturegirl and Superdorf (again):
I’m hoping next game I play I get Town, since I clearly suck at being scum

I’m hoping next game I play I get Town, since I clearly suck at being scum

I've played three games and never rolled scum, and I dread the day I do... that kind of eloquent lie-weaving under pressure sounds like an absolute nightmare to pull off. (Ah well. I'll try to have fun with it.)

You did just fine. I had you pegged as town all through the second half of D1 and the first half of D2-- there was too much information flying about, was all, and NJW dragged you down with him. The odds were not in your favour.
Playing as scum is tricky but actually very fun once you get a hang of it. The first golden rule to being scum (in my opinion anyway) is to know that whatever you say or however you act will be recorded against you. By doing something, you send a message. For example, Naturegirl's red vote not being followed with a quick hammer sent the message that scum is either one man short, or she is scum. Likewise, confuse and cause chaos without you appearing to do so. Town WILL appear scummy. Exploit that. Capitalize on it. There will be no shortage of townies who make mistakes enough to kill them.

A harder part is planning with your partner in the scum chat without appearing to be in cahoots in the game thread. You will need to plan with your partner; as NJW admits, his planning didn't account for a Day 2 mass claim so he just entered it a bit badly. Now with a little more planning, he could have built a more believable story, enough to sway Persus over. If NJW urged Naturegirl not to post without him checking over what he says, her red vote could have been prevented and kept things sort of ambiguous (remember that I had not much concrete evidence against Naturegirl before Day 2, but how NJW and she acted gave me more than enough reason to suspect her!).

FINALLY, be consistent with your Town self. Scumhunt anyway. Find places to poke, build cases, etc. Just don't make your real, scummy motives show. Pretend you're concerned about town. Good acting is a great asset!


IonMatrix:
The only thing that sucked was that I got lynched on d1. :( For some reason I feel like if I was alive I wouldve screwed up the whole game. :-X
Don't worry about it. I also screwed up Day 1 by giving some slack to a newbie scum, thinking she was newbie town. But see, this is part of the Town experience: always expect that you will die, so do something or another that will help with scumhunting.
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NJW2000

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #371 on: September 05, 2019, 08:30:58 am »

Yeah, @IonMatrix, @Naturegirl, you both had pretty tough luck considering you hadn't played much, and I think you did quite well. You learned quickly, and Naturegirl especially demonstrated the ability to make quick calculations when doing the bodyguard claim. Getting into forum mafia is very daunting, with experienced players immediately jumping on you, using jargon, and telling you endless things you should and shouldn't do without always explaining why. Idly browsing the wiki a bit can help with that, it's surprising what you can pick up that way.


Quote from: Pooka
To be fair, I'd have bussed Naturegirl if I were in your place. When she flipped scum, you'd have earned town-cred, and you'd also get a new angle of attack on Day 3: "Pooka didn't want a Naturegirl lynch on Day 1, and she flipped scum...I wonder why that is?"
I was considering bussing, or at least not objecting to a Naturegirl lynch, but she actually looked better than I did at the start of d2. We could have had a better strategy d2 in hindsight, but there were quite a few considerations that led to us putting everything into the attack.



I'm ok with how I played, I guess, though it was annoying that I didn't learn mechanical/tactical stuff about massclaims in time for d2, as that turned our risky but interesting line of scum play into a car crash.

I'm happy about my non-mechanical play though, which seems to have dramatically improved. The last few games I played were several years ago, and I was significantly less mature. In those, I generally didn't look very town, made silly errors, and scumhunted poorly despite being town. I feel like I was much better at turning people to my point of view this game, and actually scumhunted a little better too. So older and wiser, perhaps. Or perhaps I'm just suited to scum play.
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Superdorf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #372 on: September 05, 2019, 08:35:23 am »

Hm, yes... wiki-browsing is a godsend. So's trawling the Notable Games Archive. It may not be quite so effective as actually playing and questioning as you go, but you can get a great headstart by just looking through games that've already been played. Often whatever new players were playing then asked questions you can use now.

I started off my first game with lots of archive binging. It wasn't perfect, but it did help me at least fake competency for a little while. Until somebody actually pressured me, anyway.  ::)
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Shakerag

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #373 on: September 05, 2019, 08:46:12 am »

I've played three games and never rolled scum, and I dread the day I do... that kind of eloquent lie-weaving under pressure sounds like an absolute nightmare to pull off. (Ah well. I'll try to have fun with it.)
This should be required reading for anyone wanting to play scum:  Wild West Mafia.
Also, the required companion reading material: Wild West Mafia scumchat a.k.a. "How to Play Scum Like You Own the Whole Motherfucking Subforum."

Superdorf

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Re: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY
« Reply #374 on: September 05, 2019, 08:48:40 am »

That thing was ab-solutely brilliant it was.

What games would you suggest for an up-and-coming townie?
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