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[Fleeting Frames]

If something is missing, you could add it on your own - as others said, the wiki isn't just very active right now.

@Shonai_Dweller: If you're not sure whether you're correct, test in-game. If you're not sure about versioning, leave a note, i.e. {{version|v0.43.03}} - generally, the main thrust article should be about latest version, though large differences can merit a note such as with creatures and combat wear. You can always post on talk pages and ask other wiki editors such as lethosor (i.e. like I did before merging trees.)

Dont be afraid to delete incorrect stuff, as long as you know its incorrect, ive been doing that often lately.

On that note, I still want an answer here, as I could replicate the bit you deleted with 44.12 in-game testing: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014_Talk:Reclaim_fortress_mode

[therahedwig]

Also, I wouldn't confuse the wiki not being up to date with half-implemented details and some information just not being known. Prophets in particular just don't do anything exciting in this version. Secret identities mostly have to do with reputation, but are bugged(still, yes it is reported and confirmed), and... what exactly do you want to know about worldgen artifacts?

[Scruiser]

I'm moderately interested in an update-the-wiki effort and very interested in some SCIENCE on the newer world gen features.  Does anyone want to start a new thread?  I just started playing DF again over the past month after a 2 year long break (4 years since a serious fortress as opposed to briefly trying out newer features), so I don't know where to begin in terms of doing some science on World Gen.  I have a general idea of a few wiki topics that could use a bit of polishing:  The Raid Bugs are listed at the bottom of the page as a few bullet points, and so I assumed they were manageable, but on the questions subforum, I was warned they are unavoidable and potentially completely game-corrupting so that I should avoid the raid features entirely if I wanted my fort to last.  This could be further emphasized to warn players against corrupting their save files.  Similarly, the stress page mentions bugginess, but doesn't properly describe how completely game breaking stress is over the long term.  Other topics, like World Activities, need more science done... Perhaps it makes sense to wait on the next big release and then make a collective effort to document things properly with it?

To answer the OP's question I started playing back in 2010 or 2011 (I can't remember exactly and I've changed computers so I can't simply check DF version number), and as I remember it, Elf Diplomats which demand tree cutting limits were completely missing for a long stretch of time (4 years, or 6?).  They are present in the latest version but it looks like their tree cutting limits have not been adjusted to be harder even though multi-tile trees now exist.

I can also recall a stretch of time were wagons didn't exist/spawn properly... one of the .31 versions maybe?

So Toady adds and takes things out as bugs and new features demand.  Overall, I don't think any removed feature is worth going back to an old version of DF for... many of them were bugged, or placeholders for better features.  Even if something was genuinely interesting, other more interesting thing have been added since.

[Untrustedlife]

If something is missing, you could add it on your own - as others said, the wiki isn't just very active right now.

@Shonai_Dweller: If you're not sure whether you're correct, test in-game. If you're not sure about versioning, leave a note, i.e. {{version|v0.43.03}} - generally, the main thrust article should be about latest version, though large differences can merit a note such as with creatures and combat wear. You can always post on talk pages and ask other wiki editors such as lethosor (i.e. like I did before merging trees.)

Dont be afraid to delete incorrect stuff, as long as you know its incorrect, ive been doing that often lately.

On that note, I still want an answer here, as I could replicate the bit you deleted with 44.12 in-game testing: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014_Talk:Reclaim_fortress_mode

The barrels not emptying i saw , i retired a fort and visited it in adventure mode, and the barrels all had the wine and such still in them. (I didnt try unretiring it though, that may cause it) , same with food. I dont have a current save, will do tho as this happened a week back (though i probabbly uploaded the save to mantis in the mean time as ive been also finding and reporting bugs).  Was your world created in 44.12? Are you using df hack?

Bins disappearing I have not seen, and quick bit (the barrel dropping liquid thing was repeated in the unretire section twice it should have only been in the list once)


I have not observed a population explosion of animals, and even if i did i would double check the legends xml/legends viewer to see if the population actually changed. (as someone on the adventure mode subforum said: using DFHack's exterminate doesn't correctly kill creatures like you would think,  those ones  respawn upon reloading))

[Fleeting Frames]

Ah, well, that clarifies things. Reclaiming a fortress is different from just visiting in adventure mode (there's also the lair command mark map as lair to prevent scattering). E: If you look at barrels right after unretire, it's clear the items are freshly put there, as dwarves would clean them up otherwise, so this only happens on that moment, and no sooner.

The animal pops being restored wouldn't cause a population explosion either, merely the return of genocided animals. (I do have a save with keas wiped out, I suppose....)

Restoring the two.

[Untrustedlife]

Ah, well, that clarifies things. Reclaiming a fortress is different from just visiting in adventure mode (there's also the lair command mark map as lair to prevent scattering).

The animal pops being restored wouldn't cause a population explosion either, merely the return of genocided animals.

Restoring the two.

*gives thumbs up*

[Pillbo]

I find the wiki kind of intimidating. I see things which are probably out of date and think should be changed but then notice that:

a) Wiki is for Df2014, whatever that means. Do I have to add a note to say when in the last 5 years the update I'm making came to be? Requires research, clicked on cat video, forgot about it.

b) The incorrect info is part of a beautifully constructed lengthy paragraph which goes into exquisite detail about how the author believes the system works (perhaps it once did, who knows). Now I'm hit by a confidence crisis. Is what I believe to be true, really true? Do I delete this flawed work of art possibly the only copy the author has access to and add my own instructions? Or do I add a comment to the bottom "please note, none of this is true". Oh indecision. Clicked on cat video, forgot about it.

So, yeah, much as the wiki is a free "anyone can add to it, just go ahead" zone, an official community effort might yield better results than just letting it be.

Well it's 3 weeks until 2020, and close to a new major release.  Maybe once Villains it released it's time to archive the DF2014 wiki, like they did with DF2012, and migrate all data to a new DF2020 where everything should be re-evaluated and updated.

I'm sure Zach is plenty busy with DF, but considering he knows more about the game than anyone besides Toady, he seems like a good choice to make efforts to fact-check/correct misinformation/speculation.  It wouldn't be a fun job, but given the amount that players depend on the wiki as a de facto tutorial, it makes sense for there to be a voice of authority at least watching over what other people add to the wiki.

[therahedwig]

New wiki namespaces are traditionally only made for when the saves become incompatible. The next version, weirdly enough, will (afaik) still be DF2014 compatible, so proly still keeps the same namespace. Next breakage is likely to be the myth and magic arc.

Do I delete this flawed work of art possibly the only copy the author has access to and add my own instructions?

Mediawiki tracks changes in detail, the work of art will not be lost by your hands, that would require the hands of an admin going into the underbelly of the wiki. This is the main defense against vandalism.

I kinda feel you guys are over engineering editing the wiki. How come? Have you never edited a wiki, are you an inexperienced writer... Do you respect it too much?

[Shonai_Dweller]

New wiki namespaces are traditionally only made for when the saves become incompatible. The next version, weirdly enough, will (afaik) still be DF2014 compatible, so proly still keeps the same namespace. Next breakage is likely to be the myth and magic arc.

Do I delete this flawed work of art possibly the only copy the author has access to and add my own instructions?

Mediawiki tracks changes in detail, the work of art will not be lost by your hands, that would require the hands of an admin going into the underbelly of the wiki. This is the main defense against vandalism.

I kinda feel you guys are over engineering editing the wiki. How come? Have you never edited a wiki, are you an inexperienced writer... Do you respect it too much?

I'm just throwing out my own thought process on what leads me to think the wiki is incorrect to not actually doing anything about it. Might be that I'm not unique. No, have never edited a wiki. One of those life skills that just passed me by, sorry.

[Nopenope]

It's not a life skill, you just click 'edit' and start writing stuff. Also it's not like it has a byzantine bureaucracy with a style guide and specific rules like WP, it's very relaxed and you can write whatver you like however you like as long as it's accurate. Not complicated, really. I don't know why you find that intimidating, you don't need to worry too much.

I also don't think we should wait: some concepts have been lacking for years and the villain update won't change that. On the contrary, we should profit from this lull to do science when there are no fresh bugs.

Also, just for the record so people don't think I'm admonishing them or something: yes, I do edit the wiki regularly (usually anonymously). But I don't play the game as much as I would like due to having a toaster as a computer these days and many advanced features are beyond my grasp. A useful activity is to just go through Toady's or Quietust's posts about the game and copy and paste whatever they say into the relevant articles.

[therahedwig]

Or you can look at the dfhack structures and see what has already been partially figured out, and then make a thread to see if people know the rest...

Edit: As for the overengineering, I am not just talking about you, Shonai I am also curious in this regard because I see it happening to other wiki and manual projects (one of which I head myself), so I am wondering why people feel so anxious to contribute text, and whether there might be a cultural force like for example the strict standards of wikipedia like nopenope mentioned that really stifles a desire to contribute.

[Fleeting Frames]

Not to scare someone away, but it does have an A to Z style guide/specific rules, as noted in FAQ#Editing policies.

[Pillbo]

I kinda feel you guys are over engineering editing the wiki. How come? Have you never edited a wiki, are you an inexperienced writer... Do you respect it too much?

I'll speak for an unknown amount of newer or less involved players. I'm reluctant to get involved because most fan-operated wiki-type websites are heavily moderated by a core group of know-it-all gatekeepers.  I've personally been insulted and wasted my time trying to add data to other wiki's (at least 5 of various subjects) just to be flat out banned or have my edits rejected because of technicalities like minor violations of the style-guide. I've also had correct edits rejected because the moderators thought they knew what was right when they were flat out wrong.  It feels bad to be told your wrong when you aren't and it's annoying to put time and effort into fixing something when someone else can just say 'no' and make it meaningless.

Hopefully df wiki isn't in that category, but it's easy to imagine it could be. For a lot of people it's not worth the risk of getting into an argument with strangers on the internet just to try to help others.

[therahedwig]

As far as I can tell, it isn't. It is more likely people will edit your typos away than to revert your contribution, and I haven't had anything reverted yet, despite tackling several unknown-territory pages in the past week(s?).

But, I do think it is helpful to have coordination threads on the forum, especially as it makes it much easier to verify things.

[Pillbo]

I'm moderately interested in an update-the-wiki effort and very interested in some SCIENCE on the newer world gen features.  Does anyone want to start a new thread?

I started one so we can leave this thread in peace.  If people are into it cool, I'll keep it updated.