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Author Topic: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 4]  (Read 40604 times)

IonMatrix

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #75 on: October 10, 2019, 09:16:49 am »

Welp. Didn't post yesterday because there was a shit ton of homework. Not that theres anything less today, but I threw myself down the pit. Gotta climb out eventually.

The problem with this is that I keep forgetting which questions I was asked to ansewr as I read the posts. Not blaming anyone, tho. Also I don't use direct nquotes because it's to much work to edit out all the other parts. (I bet everyone disagrees)

Lets see here:

dolores, I didn't answer the questions because well, time. But your questions are like "why didn't you answer my question", so thats a bit paroxdoccal, I guess.

(Should I bold when responding to questions)

As for the people saying TricMagic didn't say whatever i claimed he did, it may not be him, but someone said that

As for the WoTs, I don't really mind them. 99% percent of the time they are two persons argueing, but whatever. They can fuck with themselves for all I want.

For who is likely to be.nightkilled, Ithink its either going to be dolores or ICT. I mean face it, wall of texts attract attention.

So, for my own questions, first, Everyone, who do you want to be lynched?

Also, dolores, I see that you have requested a extention. Do you still feel like we needit? If so, why?

Vote hector
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IonMatrix

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2019, 09:19:44 am »

Had a good sleep yesterday, so might stay up late to post more. But I need to finish my homework, so dont expect me to reply to your questions very soon.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2019, 09:27:52 am »

Oh yeah, You are right, that is not a read list, it was just the closest thing he had to a read list
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IonMatrix

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2019, 10:48:50 am »

Welp, its 12oclock here. Gotta save some energy for tommoro.
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Pooka

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2019, 11:21:45 am »

Huh, I didn't see Dolores' extension vote. Sure, let's vote to extend.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2019, 12:06:41 pm »

Vote to Extend
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TricMagic

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2019, 12:48:25 pm »

Vote to Extend.
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hector13

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #82 on: October 10, 2019, 12:55:41 pm »

EBWOP/addendum:
Well, I’m out guys. Shouldn’t have joined the game in the first place. Too much effort to be treated like a cunt, and watch others be treated the same for trying to play.
I've seen too many legit real appeals to emotion on B12, which I have traditionally bought into because I didn't want games to die and I'm not too bothered about the unethical nature of this kind of emotional blackmail to chase the alternative, to bother reacting to this.
You didn't even show the good faith to actually bold out or anything like that. If you think I'm being too harsh, you can blame tiruin and flabort and everyone else who legit real did this shit as scum and then continued to play the game after garnering unwarranted town sympathy.

It was midnight, I was trying to sleep, posting by phone.

Out, by whatever means. Modkill, lynch, replacement, doesn’t matter. If I have to self vote, then that works too.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2019, 02:22:26 pm »

Extend. Apparently what it takes to get the lurkers posting is to take a break. Sadly, that also means I have to post a wall to respond to everyone. Do keep in mind that I take extension votes as promises to produce more content; wasting everyone's time is anti-every-alignment.



There's too much here to dissect into clear points, as my issue is about the post as a whole: the way you suddenly switched your tone to agreeing with me and arguing from the starting point of me being town seems to me like an attempt to flatter me to distract me away from you. It's after only directly responding to one point (though your post to hector indirectly responds to most of the rest) of this post, and after saying this:
The idea that not giving a bad response is more important than getting content out onto the page where other players can see it is deeply scummy, ICT. Why are you so concerned about how you look? Surely if you give a forthright response and let slip things like your identity, that can only be good for you, right ICT?
My gut simply doesn't agree with the sudden flip-flop. I thought I had you cornered with your only out being to admit to hypocrisy, and then just...nothing. Here's a thought: I consider hypocrisy to be an anti-scumtell (not quite a towntell), because scum players are generally more meticulous about keeping their story straight, because town players can count on their stories holding up on their own.

One pickup, though:
Quote
ICT still has to address this point if he cares about leaving it unaddressed.
Have I not worked on addressing that particular point?
What was the meaning of your argument when you said --

I really don't like this. Besides the fact that I don't agree (my gut read on Qh tastes like scum) and they're displaying the wrong priorities for town, I really dislike the idea both of 'information lynches' in general (I don't really believe in them at all) and especially ones where you don't outline what you could follow up on them with.
Fine, short version: if QH is scum, you are scum and bussed them. If QH is town, hector is scum. Compare: if hector is scum, I'm not. If hector is town, everyone's neutral, at least based on that point alone. These are mostly based on gut feelings and common buddying and bussing tells from looking at the pairings in isolation. Of course, since hector13 is flipping the table, that analysis can be left for a later time.



I would reveal that I am cop and reveal the innocence of a town member so we don’t lynch fellow townies.
Wrong. The generally correct answer is to be sneaky and vindicate the townie with something other than a full claim. Why do you imply that not lynching town is a more important goal than protecting the cop? Also, that question wasn't directed at you.

Quote
What did you edit out? Where is the entire quote?
Double-dashes [--] signify parts where something was removed mid-text. The entire quote is always behind the quote with a link directly above the statement.

How do you plan to use the extend-time to find scum? How many questions do you expect you will have to ask to get a read on each player?



By putting together the little pieces we've got to form a picture, if incomplete, of a night.
Who do you believe will be killed tonight? How do you expect to know what the town power roles did? What do you believe the other power roles will do? What sort of picture will you build from these pieces?

Quote
A slip or two may give us an idea of who is scum.
How do you plan to make scumslips happen?

Quote
If it's the latter, you'll have to bear with me especially when good ol' text walls drop. I have a tendency to just skip them, especially if they're banter between two persons and packed with rebuttals to quote after quote (see ICT and Dolores), which are very hard to follow on a normal day.
What do the text walls have to do with your own scumhunting? If you ignore them, you have an open thread to take charge and start asking some questions.

Quote
IcyTea, how do you intend to act on the nulls in your list?
By talking to them once they actually start responding to me. They are nulls because they don't post, not because I can't divine their alignments from wing of bat and eye of newt.

Quote
Also you think a high level of engagement is a town tell, but how likely do you think that scum can hide behind it?
Easily, when not all town players are actively playing.

Quote
Everyone, what is the most likely target for the next night kill?
Me or dolores.

Quote
I'm leaning on a dolores lynch unless the answers convince me otherwise.
Based on what? Explain your reasoning.



..... That isn't exactly helpful.

Dolores, can you give a short list of reasons to lynch Hector over you?
This implies you have concluded either dolores or hector must be scum. What is your reasoning for that? Why aren't you engaging with anyone else in this post?



The problem with this is that I keep forgetting which questions I was asked to ansewr as I read the posts.
I recommend taking notes. Mafia isn't a game you can play entirely in your head, even if this game is notably low on the information flood. Please read back, write down every question you were asked, as well as any other interesting statement you spot, and then respond to them.

Quote
(Should I bold when responding to questions)
Not necessarily, but you should make it clear exactly who you're answering to.

Quote
As for the people saying TricMagic didn't say whatever i claimed he did, it may not be him, but someone said that
I believe you. You haven't said a word about TricMagic. What do you think about TricMagic?

Quote
So, for my own questions, first, Everyone, who do you want to be lynched?
My vote should answer this question on its own merit.

Quote
Vote hector
What is your reasoning for this vote?



Questorhank: where are you? I have made 14 posts since I asked you some questions, and all of them would have been better with your input.
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Superdorf

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2019, 03:48:16 pm »

Votes to extend: dolores, IcyTea31, Naturegirl1999, Pooka, TricMagic (5)

The day has been extended.

Quote from: Votecount
Not voting: kingawsume, Naturegirl1999, Pooka, Questorhank

dolores: TricMagic (1)
hector13: dolores, IonMatrix, IcyTea31 (3)
Naturegirl1999: hector13 (1)

Votes to extend: ---

Day One ends on 2019-10-14 18:00 EST.
Extension is available, requiring 4 votes.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 07:51:55 am by Superdorf »
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Pooka

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2019, 05:18:07 pm »

I will group separate points together. A quote and one or two line sentences followed by another set of quote and one or two line sentences contribute to this "wall of text" feel and becomes really difficult to read compared to paragraphs of reasonable size.

Who do you believe will be killed tonight? How do you expect to know what the town power roles did? What do you believe the other power roles will do? What sort of picture will you build from these pieces? How do you plan to make scumslips happen?
I haven't had the time to actually pay attention to the individual members of the game so I can't reasonably say who might be nightkilled, but I can expect that if Dolores was not lynched, they'll either be kept alive as potential WIFOM material for scum or is scum themselves (this, in addition to my gut feeling that they might be power wolfing that I expressed in my first post is your answer to why I blued Dolores); in other words I don't know who will be night killed, but I have a strong feeling it won't be Dolores. As for the power roles, there's breadcrumbs which would likely appear on Day 2, as well as changes in read lists. I can expect the jailer for example to feel better about a guy he jailed.

As for what they will do, I have the feeling that you and Dolores would be the center of power role activity due to both the content you both created and the content the rest has not created (which means the rest are not as fruitful for PR usage). As for the picture, I can't say without the pieces yet, but the more interconnected, the better, and finally scumslips can be made to happen by questioning motives for an action, and this will be easier during the mass claims season where scum have to build up a believable "alibi" to stay alive.


Quote
Also you think a high level of engagement is a town tell, but how likely do you think that scum can hide behind it?
Easily, when not all town players are actively playing.
I would say that scum can be very adept at being active even when all the townies post hourly. For one, it makes them that much harder to spot by activity and if done well, nobody would expect Active Helpful Town Poster to be the Scum of the Earth. Unless you never post, I believe activity doesn't tell much of how scummy someone is. Not to mention it is affected by external factors unrelated to the game itself.

I'm satisfied by your answers, my only point of disagreement is Dolores being nightkilled, but I can see you getting nightkilled probable. Won't be long until we find out or something changes in the upcoming two days.
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dolores

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2019, 06:49:47 pm »

Dolores, I have scrolled up and down the game's two pages and found nothing of a "reads list." Do you have one on hand?
Where's yours, kiddo?
Not only had I posted an ordered list of reads, I'd posted the explanation of the reads directly above it. The inactive players section was ordered from town-scum at that time. If you're insistent that I give you the one-line explanation for each, every player other than NG, Qh and TricMagic have the explanation "This player hasn't posted enough to draw any sort of conclusions about their alignment with more than a 1% confidence". You should already know my reads on those other players if you've followed the thread. I'll post an updated list at the bottom of this post with more details now that people have some posts in the thread.
IcyTea is active and hector isn't. Now, hector would theoretically be less active due to external factors if he wasn't going to go in on a mafia game, but he also went in and didn't give any sort of excuse about it so maybe I'm reading too much into that. Hector is still more active than 2/3 of the town, but that's not surprising given who's making up the other 2/3 of the town. ICT seems to care a lot more about the state of his information and potential cases generally, whereas hector seems more focused on specific narratives. What I'm trying to say is, so far in this game, hector13 is suspicious to me and IcyTea31 isn't.
Everyone, what is the most likely target for the next night kill?
Why do you care? How about you find scum instead of trying to direct the conversatino to wifom?
Wifom isn't even a bad tool if you keep it all in your head. The moment you try to bog it down like this and make it reactable, it serves no purposes other than to distract the town.
I'm leaning on a dolores lynch unless the answers convince me otherwise.
And have you got a single piece of evidence to back that up? You've got several pages of what is almost 50% my content. Why don't you go through that and try to piece together an argument instead of complaining that reading posts is too hard and asking for things you've already seen.

Dolores, can you give a short list of reasons to lynch Hector over you?
What a fucking joke.
Not only did I literally give a short list of reasons (it's quite short) why hector was suspicious
IcyTea is active and hector isn't. Now, hector would theoretically be less active due to external factors if he wasn't going to go in on a mafia game, but he also went in and didn't give any sort of excuse about it so maybe I'm reading too much into that. Hector is still more active than 2/3 of the town, but that's not surprising given who's making up the other 2/3 of the town. ICT seems to care a lot more about the state of his information and potential cases generally, whereas hector seems more focused on specific narratives. What I'm trying to say is, so far in this game, hector13 is suspicious to me and IcyTea31 isn't.
as well as a wall of questions directed at the suspect parts of his posts that he declined to answer.
But you, again, have literally no reason to lynch me despite walls and walls of text for you to pick through. Ya got nothing. You're voting for by far the most active player and you have not a single piece of evidence or reference to any of my posts or interactions to base it on. You know something I don't know, tric? Why are you so willing to lynch between myself and hector when the suspiciousness of our play is so radically different, and further willing to do so without having viewed literally any of the evidence yourself? Does it not matter how suspicious we appear because you already know neither of us is scum?

That's not a lynch list, it's merely a list saying who is active and who is inactive. Besides Dolores and ICT, notice how everyone in that list is blue, they all have a finger of suspicion pointed towards them. Not exactly useful because there is two scum, not that many.
Kinda makes it hard for the players in the game when you're so cripplingly inactive that they can't draw any conclusions about your alignment, chump. Posting once in RVS and then lurking for the rest of the game is suspicious as heck and you don't get to pretend it's not.

So, for my own questions, first, Everyone, who do you want to be lynched?
hector13, obviously
Also, dolores, I see that you have requested a extention. Do you still feel like we needit? If so, why?
Well given that 2/3 of the town have posted virtually nothing, it'd be a good start.
If the quality of the posts is anything like this it's not going to make much difference though.
Have you considered reading the thread? Maybe asking questions about ideas that arise from doing that?

There's too much here to dissect into clear points, as my issue is about the post as a whole: the way you suddenly switched your tone to agreeing with me and arguing from the starting point of me being town seems to me like an attempt to flatter me to distract me away from you. It's after only directly responding to one point (though your post to hector indirectly responds to most of the rest) of this post, and after saying this:
The idea that not giving a bad response is more important than getting content out onto the page where other players can see it is deeply scummy, ICT. Why are you so concerned about how you look? Surely if you give a forthright response and let slip things like your identity, that can only be good for you, right ICT?
My gut simply doesn't agree with the sudden flip-flop. I thought I had you cornered with your only out being to admit to hypocrisy, and then just...nothing. Here's a thought: I consider hypocrisy to be an anti-scumtell (not quite a towntell), because scum players are generally more meticulous about keeping their story straight, because town players can count on their stories holding up on their own.
You already know I'm a hypocrite, I'd have just thought it was assumed. Anyway, it seemed like you understood my points and there was nothing in your post that I was going to drag out at a later date to try and get you lynched (besides what I did); I was "playing suspect" in that exchange and you weren't, so
Anyway, I'm definetly not trying to get you to stop chasing me. I was dropping the case I was building against you for the time being while I prepared to tackle hector, but that got finished in one post so I lost a lot of momentum there.
I'm cutting out sections of quotes when I don't have any questions related to them and I don't see any use to commentating on them to drive one of my narratives. I'll give you an example right now and cut out a section of a post which, by not being responded to, makes it easy to see that the trivial case is an acceptable assumption for you to pick up.
Fine, short version: if QH is scum, you are scum and bussed them. If QH is town, hector is scum.
This is duuuumb
You're that certain that Qh is town? Why? Based on what? Their only posts showed questionable priorities. Somehow, through some magic, there are a lot of bad players who also show those priorities, but they're fundamentally scum positions. What have you read that makes you so willing to tell me that they're clean?

As for what they will do, I have the feeling that you and Dolores would be the center of power role activity due to both the content you both created and the content the rest has not created (which means the rest are not as fruitful for PR usage). As for the picture, I can't say without the pieces yet, but the more interconnected, the better, and finally scumslips can be made to happen by questioning motives for an action, and this will be easier during the mass claims season where scum have to build up a believable "alibi" to stay alive.
What a fucking joke. Here's your mass claim, dumbass. "I claim vanilla townie". There you go. That's it. That's your alibi. The one power role is the jailkeeper who won't claim under any circumstance, because the setup didn't roll a cop. Congrats.
You're not going to find anything on D1 and nothing beyond cop claims/counterclaims (which might not happen) D2+ if you don't do actual work in the thread instead of waiting around doing jack shit.

For one, it makes them that much harder to spot by activity and if done well, nobody would expect Active Helpful Town Poster to be the Scum of the Earth.
Nobody suspects Active Helpful Town Poster because they're contributing to the game, which is hard to do as scum when you already know where all the pieces go and are trying their best not to give it away. It's easy to be active as a townie in an active town because there are a lot of things you want to find out. The activity of the town is a rate limiter on how much work you can do because you can't schizopost your way into alignment knowledge, you've gotta investigate based on content in the thread. It is always in scums interest for there to be less activity in the thread and it is always in town's interest for there to be more.
Unless you never post, I believe activity doesn't tell much of how scummy someone is.
(Until twelve hours ago, you've pretty much never posted. I guess this is your scumclaim?)
Completely wrong and laughably uneducated. Activity is the strongest and most reliable towntell. Activity varies by player, circumstance, and gamestate/role. If you know the player and can control for their metagame (and any external factors they've stated which might impact their activity), you can likely determine the alignment and PR status of a player by their level of engagement. Scum will always be less engaged than town because there is less they are interested in finding out. Cops will always be less engaged than vanilla townie's etc. because there is less they are interested in finding out, also. This is why cops usually read like scum.
I'm satisfied by your answers, my only point of disagreement is Dolores being nightkilled, but I can see you getting nightkilled probable. Won't be long until we find out or something changes in the upcoming two days.
Yeah guys, let's just wait for scum to win before we do any work. The fact that we have a limited number of mislynches and will virtually certainly have to solve the game without too much mechanical help doesn't mean that we can't sit on a thumbs and refuse to do anything until we get mechanical solutions, which will be after we've lost.

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kingawsume

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2019, 08:25:29 pm »

Here goes.
Quote from: ICT
Why only one? Why that question in particular?
Usually by that point I'd have other questions to deal with, townies to lead along, and other people to give judgement on. Others will likely comment on it, but who would point out a single question as being scumbuddies? It being a throwaway question, again, I don't think anyone would try to link it to us being scum together. Again, passivity, but enough passive-aggressive to satisfy everyone, sans maybe the most aggressive of townies.
Speaking of which...
Quote
I'll start with everyone at once and see who catches my eye.
Unless you're claiming cop, I'd like to know more about what you meant by that. Are you referring to the act of investigating through text, or through a night ability? If the latter, would you mind explaining how we have two town cops, or that Tric is the mafia cop? Oh wait,
Quote
As they say, the best way to get the right answer is to give a wrong one.
why the fuck am I even trying?

TricMagic: Scum. Claiming town cop, but actually rolecop. Gut feeling.
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dolores

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #88 on: October 10, 2019, 09:39:15 pm »

TricMagic: Scum. Claiming town cop, but actually rolecop. Gut feeling.
WHERE DID HE CLAIM COP
I've searched through his posts and through the thread more times than anyone should ever have to. Tric, despite not having contributed anything positive to the game, has not claimed cop. He answered a hypothetical about when he should claim if he were a cop, but did not make any claim.
why the fuck am I even trying?
Got some balls to call this 'trying' and complain like we're making it hard for you to play the game

Why do you keep harping on about cop claims? Why is this such a big deal to you?
You've given some thoughts about icytea and tricmagic, as confusing as they are. How do you feel about pooka and questorhawk? Do you buy into with why I'm leaning more towards scum with them? If not, do you think they've given anything out to indicate their alignment?
Are any of the others (Ion, Naturegirl) either suspicious or town scented to you?
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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #89 on: October 11, 2019, 02:02:13 am »

TricMagic: Scum. Claiming town cop, but actually rolecop. Gut feeling.
WHERE DID HE CLAIM COP
He answered a hypothetical about when he should claim if he were a cop, but did not make any claim.
His first post. Who, in any right mind, says this
Cop claim in this game would be as soon as I have information.
and doesn't interpret it as a cop claim? He's laid it out, wifom or not. Forgive me for not writing college-level arguments in a forum game.
why the fuck am I even trying?
Got some balls to call this 'trying' and complain like we're making it hard for you to play the game
I'd like to point out how I'm at least trying, asswipe. It wasn't directed towards you or about you, so please, can it. It was directed at ICT, and me attempting to get an answer (period) from him. If anything, all I see is you intervening as his scumbuddy.
Why do you keep harping on about cop claims? Why is this such a big deal to you?
Because of how I play the game. Cop claims are 90% scum excuse, 5% scum last resort, 5% actually town, in my experience. Claiming cop, especially D1, is nothing but an excuse to act scummy, or an excuse as to why you're acting scummy.
How do you feel about pooka and questorhawk? Do you buy into with why I'm leaning more towards scum with them? If not, do you think they've given anything out to indicate their alignment?
Are any of the others (Ion, Naturegirl) either suspicious or town scented to you?
I've trusted you about as far I can throw the server rack your arguements are on. Pooka is null, along with Ion and Nature; they posted even less than I have. Hank is neutral, leaning town.
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