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Author Topic: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 4]  (Read 40618 times)

dolores

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #90 on: October 11, 2019, 02:14:04 am »

Who, in any right mind, says this
Cop claim in this game would be as soon as I have information.
and doesn't interpret it as a cop claim?
Literally anyone and everyone, considering you're the only one that did
Forgive me for not writing college-level arguments in a forum game.
no

I've trusted you about as far I can throw the server rack your arguements are on. Pooka is null, along with Ion and Nature; they posted even less than I have. Hank is neutral, leaning town.
So if you're acknowledging A) that players who don't post anything can't be read and B) you don't know the alignment of other players in the game, why aren't you pursuing any kind of investigation into these players?
How do you plan to get a read on Pooka? How do you plan to get a read on Ion or Naturegirl? How do you plan on stopping scum from winning by proxy if you remain as you are and don't do that?
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IcyTea31

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #91 on: October 11, 2019, 03:35:37 am »

scumslips can be made to happen by questioning motives for an action
How will you know what actions were made?

Quote
this will be easier during the mass claims season
When do you expect this mass claim season to be?

Quote
scum have to build up a believable "alibi" to stay alive.
Why is "I'm a vanilla townie" not a believable alibi? Because that's what they'll use.

Quote
For one, it makes them that much harder to spot by activity
Wrong. Finding the most and least engaged players is as easy as counting everyone's posts/wordcount/etc. and ranking them by that. Suspicious outliers are easier to notice from a gaussian curve than from a flat line of nothing, because if most of the town aren't posting, scum can also not engage and still have a perfectly median post count.

Quote
Not to mention it is affected by external factors unrelated to the game itself.
Do you think you could take, say, five fifteen-minute breaks out of your day? A major world religion can make that work, so you can as well. Or alternatively, when you have free time in the evening, post one mega-post responding to everything said that day. When you sign up for the game, you agree to find some time in your calendar to actually play to win.

Inactivity is also pretty inexcusable when one somehow finds the time to make 1500-word posts elsewhere but only makes ones with 20-ish words here.

Quote
Won't be long until we find out or something changes in the upcoming two days.
Assuming mislynches and successful nightkills, we'll be in LYLO in two days. Got a plan for doing something useful before then?



You're that certain that Qh is town? Why? Based on what? -- What have you read that makes you so willing to tell me that they're clean?
I'm not certain. But this post here tells me that ignorance is a possible explanation for the misaimed priorities:
The more I think about this the more of a trap it seems.
Combine that with the stronger scum reads on other players, and you have a town read. However, it's a very incomplete picture based on a weak argument, which is why I really want a response out of QH.



Usually by that point I'd have other questions to deal with, townies to lead along, and other people to give judgement on.
That's also what you should have as town. Where are they?

Quote
Others will likely comment on it, but who would point out a single question as being scumbuddies?
I would, if that question was the only interaction the two ever had.

Quote
Again, passivity, but enough passive-aggressive to satisfy everyone, sans maybe the most aggressive of townies.
What you're describing is active-lurking. It's a fairly generally accepted scumtell around here. How is it different from what you're doing right now?

Quote
Unless you're claiming cop, I'd like to know more about what you meant by that. Are you referring to the act of investigating through text, or through a night ability?
Investigation: the act of gathering information about a subject through varied means, including but not limited to talking to them. Inspection: the act of using a cop's night ability.

Quote
why the fuck am I even trying?
Because you'll never win the game if you don't.

Quote
TricMagic: Scum. Claiming town cop, but actually rolecop. Gut feeling.
You're willing to go for a gut lynch without questioning the target after an extension was granted?
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2019, 08:09:49 am »

Everyone, what is the most likely target for the next night kill?
Depending on which of them is scum, I’m guessing dolores or ICT due to comparatively high levels of activity compared to everyone else. Unless they are both scum arguing with each other to get one of them to be thought of as town because why would scum be investigating each other. I think at least one of them possibly both might be town, if this is the case, one of them might be night killed. Unless this answer suspecting them being night killed would cause the scum to nightkilk someone else to make town think they both are scum when they might not be because why wouldn’t scum kill high activity townies unless those “townies” werent townies

I'm leaning on a dolores lynch unless the answers convince me otherwise.
I’m curious why this is
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IonMatrix

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2019, 09:39:18 am »

Sorry for my inactivity. Usually, I can only post once on schooldays, but for some reason everyone disappears on weekends. I'm going to try to post tommorro because school lets out early and I dont have to participate ina stupid event which keeps me busy until 8. Not helping that I'm in China.

On topic tho:

(I dont use direct quotes, but I guess I can use "fake" quotes)

Quote from: ICT
What do you think about Tric?
Well, the usual. Null, leaning town. Not sure why he is choosing between lynching hector and dolores tho. I mean, which sensible person wont choose the person who quitted?
Quote from: ICT
What is your reasoning behind voting hector?
I mean, he literally quit.

dolores, what exactly made you think I dont read the thread? I asked why you placed an extension vote. Everyone is inactive, but is that really enough to make you think i dont read the thread? I mean, the inactivity is obvious, but...but...you know what? scrap tthat, im an idiot. Unless your reason wasnt that question, in that case please state it.
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Pooka

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2019, 09:47:26 am »

Do you think you could take, say, five fifteen-minute breaks out of your day? A major world religion can make that work, so you can as well.
OK.

Friday, 3:24PM.

Where's yours, kiddo?
Not only had I posted an ordered list of reads, I'd posted the explanation of the...
Easy there, easy there. How do you expect me, who made a singular post before yesterday, to suddenly produce a reads list out of thin air? You need to slow down a bit. We're not in a rush, we've still got tomorrow.

Why do you care? How about you find scu[rest of non-answer cut out]
Stop dodging the question and start answering it.

And have you got a single piece of evidence to back that up? You've got several pages of what is almost 50% my content. Why don't you go through that and try to piece together an argument instead of complaining that reading posts is too hard and asking for things you've already seen.
There's the bad gut feeling, there's the new thing of you dodging questions, and I'm not feeling up to reading walls of text between you and ICT.


Friday, 3:33PM
Time to focus on someone other than dolores for a quick break


Unless this answer suspecting them being night killed would cause the scum to nightkilk someone else to make town think they both are scum when they might not be because why wouldn’t scum kill high activity townies unless those “townies” werent townies
If they're both townies, it is very possible that the scum would leave them alive either because they're nowhere close to uncovering the scum, or because they think the scum are town. Keeping track of who they think is OK while they're still alive should be a thing.

I’m curious why this is
I've got a bad feeling about dolores and think they're power wolfing.


Friday 3:38PM
Here we go again.


What a fucking joke. Here's your mass claim, dumbass. "I claim vanilla townie". There you go. That's it. That's your alibi. The one power role is the jailkeeper who won't claim under any circumstance, because the setup didn't roll a cop. Congrats.
You're not going to find anything on D1 and nothing beyond cop claims/counterclaims (which might not happen) D2+ if you don't do actual work in the thread instead of waiting around doing jack shit.
The more I play with Dolores, the more I see why Hector quit and the more I tempted I am to red them. Also I love how this is a "mass" claim. I'm not even sure what to respond here, but I suppose I'll let dolores ramble.

Nobody suspects Active Helpful Town Poster because they're contributing to the game, which is hard to do as scum when you already know where all the pieces go and are trying their best not to give it away.
The Active Helpful Town Poster as I said is basically the Scum of the Earth I'm talking about. Yes it's hard, but it's not impossible, and it makes for a good show. So I save myself the trouble from worrying about activity.

(Until twelve hours ago, you've pretty much never posted. I guess this is your scumclaim?)
Completely wrong and laughably uneducated. Activity is the strongest and most reliable towntell.
By the standards of whom? A towntell so strong and reliable, practically few even has it this game. No thanks.

Explicitly anti-activity.
I'm not sure how you extrapolated that from my posts, but ok, I'll play along. I'm the dumbest and most idiotic being alive and you make Einstein look stupid.


Friday 3:50PM


How will you know what actions were made?
Claims, nightkill results if you're a protective power role.

When do you expect this mass claim season to be?
Day 2 at the earliest, Day 3 at the latest.

Why is "I'm a vanilla townie" not a believable alibi? Because that's what they'll use.
You have a point here, it is a believable alibi especially if everyone else claims the same.

Wrong. Finding the most and least engaged players is as easy as counting everyone's posts/wordcount/etc. and ranking them by that. Suspicious outliers are easier to notice from a gaussian curve than from a flat line of nothing, because if most of the town aren't posting, scum can also not engage and still have a perfectly median post count.
Interesting. What if the outliers post too much compared to the rest (assume all of them are posting fairly regularly)?

Assuming mislynches and successful nightkills, we'll be in LYLO in two days. Got a plan for doing something useful before then?
Vote to lynch someone today, then the power roles do their work overnights. I'd rather the power roles go for anyone other than you and ICT; I won't specify who because I'd like them to spread over the players. Mass claims can happen as early as Day 2 and we should make the best use of it.


Friday 4:06PM


I'll appease local Genius Overlord dolores with a reads list. I'll be leaving hector out because he's out, and only reinstate him if he continues to play or is replaced.


IcyTea: Leaning town. His posts and answers don't give any indication that he's scum, but at least he seems interested in finding out the scum by simply asking and responding.
Naturegirl: Leaning town. Generally helpful and brought up some points, even if her mass claims question sounds like a correcting of her previous behavior as scum.
kingawsume: Neutral, his answer to dolores' question about cops and how he perceives TricMagic's cop claim is consistent (he wouldn't claim cop at the start and cop claims are mostly a scum tactic)
TricMagic: Neutral, cop claim at the beginning is interesting.
Questorhank: Neutral, hasn't posted much, but has noted dolores' "are you a vanilla townie?" trick question.
IonMatrix: Also neutral, barely anything to make him look scummy or towny, but when he does post, he does bring up interesting points, like Naturegirl agreeing with TricMagic on dolores' being a power wolf and a threat.

Now for the place of honor.
dolores: Leaning scum. Bad gut feeling due to the power wolfing style (which indeed led some people around such as Naturegirl by aggression - I like how they told Naturegirl to ask me something instead of, y'know, asking me directly), dodges questions asked towards them. Their speech which regularly includes insults just makes it harder to ingest any points they have made and also a subtle attempt at getting townies to not do things they say are bad (next thing I know, I expect them to say something along the words of "get used to it dumbass"). Potential WIFOM material if they're seen alive Day 2, and I'd rather get rid of it now than later.


Friday 4:38PM


Do you think you could take, say, five fifteen-minute breaks out of your day? A major world religion can make that work, so you can as well. Or alternatively, when you have free time in the evening, post one mega-post responding to everything said that day. When you sign up for the game, you agree to find some time in your calendar to actually play to win.
A major world religion has a fixed system of doing things; the five daily prayers of Islam rarely change. A Mafia game is unpredictable, either you spend five minutes responding to a bunch of posts or twenty to deal with dolores' responses to a single person. I know Mafia is a srz business game, but activity on Day 1 isn't even my strongest suit on a normal day, let alone with a cold and life to tend to.


Friday 4:45PM.
Not scrapping 1h:19m of content here!
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #95 on: October 11, 2019, 10:03:14 am »

Everyone, what is the most likely target for the next night kill?
Why do you care?
Pooka is right, dolores shouldn’t be dodging questions. If you are town, you have no reason do dodge questions.
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IonMatrix

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2019, 10:11:37 am »

Naturegirl, personally I think a dodged question isnt really enough to vote someone. A FoS or a simple reminder would do splendid here, especially considering who you are going up against.
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IonMatrix

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2019, 10:13:14 am »

Oop, its 11 here already. Probably should go sleep.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2019, 10:25:51 am »

It was mostly to get attention unvote
dolores still needs to answer the question
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dolores

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2019, 10:42:31 am »

Easy there, easy there. How do you expect me, who made a singular post before yesterday, to suddenly produce a reads list out of thin air?
Why do you feel like I should have one if you're going to refuse to do the same work you're asking for?
Not having posted doesn't mean you haven't been reading the thread (you not knowing what's in the thread suggests you haven't been reading the thread). There's no reason you couldn't have a list of reads. That said, I'm not too interesting in your putting out a reads list, I'd rather more of this latest post each day in the future.
You need to slow down a bit. We're not in a rush, we've still got tomorrow.
Yes and no. The degree of certainty that we could have in our positions would be overwhelmingly better if we could have a productive 120 hours instead of a productive 48 hours. I, for one, will probably not be posting too many times after this and am liable to be slipping into a mild coma in the span leading up to the deadline. If everyone put out a post or two like this (your most recent), we'd be sitting well for going into D2.
Everyone, what is the most likely target for the next night kill?
Why do you care? How about you find scu[rest of non-answer cut out]{Why do you care? How about you find scum instead of trying to direct the conversatino to wifom?}
Stop dodging the question and start answering it.
You're going to be seeing a lot of this quote pyramid in the future unless/until you convince me you're not scum.
I'm going to break this down since this is a good encapsulation of my case against Pooka
PPE: Naturegirl1999 pay attention to this part
Okay, some of the players here are very new to the game and don't really follow why what pooka is doing here is obviously scummy and totally against town interests.
There's this idea in mafia of WIFOM, which stands for 'wine in front of me'. It's a reference to a scene in The Princess Bride where a challenge is placed to pick which of the two cups of wine is poisoned, based solely on the knowledge that the order was chosen by your opponent and attempting to discern to what degree they are double(triple,quadriple,etc.) bluffing. The entire situation is a false dichotomy, because at the end of the scene it is revealed that both cups were poisoned by the opponent, who is also the one who set the challenge and had previously developed an immunity to the poison. This metaphor translates directly into mafia.
Were it possible to correctly guess which player was going to be nightkilled, I could attempt to do so and post this information in the thread, since you would expect this to produce a guarunteed save by the jailkeeper, or raise extremely peritent questions about the player's alignment if they aren't killed. Here are the problems with this kind of thinking: scum always have the positional advantage, town information is never as dynamic as scum information. What do I mean by these things? Scum always make the final (and only) decision, which is at night. This means that scum will always have the opportunity to make to decide based on all of the possible information they could have collected. The only way for town players to communicate is in the thread, because they have no quicktopic etc. This means that scum will always know what town publically know. There is no way for me, say, to communicate to the jailkeeper my thoughts about the nightkill without also making scum aware that the jailkeeper is aware of this. Ultimately, no matter what town do or say in the thread, scum can just flip a coin or use a random number generator and subvert the process completely. Meanwhile, the entire discussion does nothing towards producing reliable reads on town/scum that would survive this happening. The game is both rigged from the start and unrelated to the actual game of mafia. So what's Pooka done that's so scummy?
Spoiler: TLDR case on pooka (click to show/hide)
How do I know Pooka hasn't read my posts?
Well, I'd already answered the question before it was ever asked.
I'll also take this chance to remind you [IcyTea] that if you are town, you're probably going to die tonight because the hypothetical jailkeeper will be on me and all but the most inept or easily wifom'd scumteams will realise this.
You should be able to realise from my 'nonanswer' that this position hadn't changed. Jailkeeper is going to be on me, because either I'm town and the most valuable player in the game, or I'm scum and you may as well block me. Knowing this, scum are probably not going to kill me, so they're probably going to kill ICT. All of this is pointless and subject to WIFOM though, because scum can read my posts (though I guess that might not be true, if the scumteam involves pooka lmao).
Oh, also they keep saying they don't read the thread/my posts. Here's one example:
I'm not feeling up to reading walls of text between you and ICT.
If you've read the source of the above quote which apparently made you switch your vote, Naturegirl1999, you shoulds notice that you are now literally voting me based on another players gutread.
What's your actual read on me, by the way, naturegirl?
Nobody suspects Active Helpful Town Poster because they're contributing to the game, which is hard to do as scum when you already know where all the pieces go and are trying their best not to give it away.
The Active Helpful Town Poster as I said is basically the Scum of the Earth I'm talking about. Yes it's hard, but it's not impossible, and it makes for a good show. So I save myself the trouble from worrying about activity.
Again, you're either just plain uneducated and have no idea what you're talking about, or you're lying through your teeth. If it is easier to post more as town, then if everyone posts as much as possible, scum will be forced to post less by their increased difficulty in doing so. The only exception would be if a player literally always throws the game as town because they want to always be scum or some dumb shit like that. Basically, if it's variable how difficult it is to do something as town/scum, we can literally determine alignment solely by that category if we push it near the limit.
By the standards of whom? A towntell so strong and reliable, practically few even has it this game. No thanks.
In 90% of mafia games, 2/3 of this town would be the first player lynched for their crippling inactivity and total refusal to engage in scumhunting, yes.
Do you remember that list with me voting for hector and 6/9 players FOS'd for being inactive? Literally everyone with any amount of experience playing on B12 or in similar metagames would agree with that position. The behavior is incrediably suspicious from each and every one of you that is/was inactive. The only reason it's not being driven down to the point of the lynch is because it's so widespread that it can't be used to distinguish between you.
Claims, nightkill results if you're a protective power role.
Let's find scum before we're all dead, for a change of pace. Mechanics don't matter. It's D1. Scum will slip because they're scummy, not because you've got inspect results on one of them.
Interesting. What if the outliers post too much compared to the rest (assume all of them are posting fairly regularly)?
That means they're (probably) town
Potential WIFOM material if they're seen alive Day 2, and I'd rather get rid of it now than later.
I only quoted this because it's funny that you think I'm such a threat to the scum that you expect me to be the target of their scumkill, yet you're also trying to lynch me (because I won't respond to WIFOM, no less).
All I'm getting from this is that I'm a threat to you, pooka. How can you be so confident that I'm not on your team? You know our alignments already, eh mr mafia?


A major world religion has a fixed system of doing things; the five daily prayers of Islam rarely change. A Mafia game is unpredictable, either you spend five minutes responding to a bunch of posts or twenty to deal with dolores' responses to a single person. I know Mafia is a srz business game, but activity on Day 1 isn't even my strongest suit on a normal day, let alone with a cold and life to tend to.
It was ICT who suggested this routine change, and it seems to be working wonders for you(r content).
If everyone can put out a post like this (your recent post) once every 24 hours, the game will proceed along fine, if slower than it could be.
What we can't deal with is a one paragraph post every 72 hours, which is what we've had up until now outside of the three, for want of a better term, ICs in the game.
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dolores

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #100 on: October 11, 2019, 10:46:30 am »

EBWOP: forgot this:
Quote from: ICT
What is your reasoning behind voting hector?
I mean, he literally quit.
So do you not also think that he's scum? If we get a replacement, do you expect to change your vote?
dolores, what exactly made you think I dont read the thread? I asked why you placed an extension vote. Everyone is inactive, but is that really enough to make you think i dont read the thread? I mean, the inactivity is obvious, but...but...you know what? scrap tthat, im an idiot. Unless your reason wasnt that question, in that case please state it.
I was interpreting this post as your saying you weren't reading my posts. Together with your habit of missing questions and anemic content/complaints about your time schedule, I was assuming that you just weren't really following the thread.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #101 on: October 11, 2019, 11:30:20 am »

Right, I unvoted you and remove the suspicion from you. Now I realize the suspiciousness of Pooka's inactifity. In the last game I played with Pooka, they posted much more often as town then they are in this game.
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Pooka

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2019, 11:57:28 am »

Look, a dolores post! Time to retire Notepad and use Notepad++ instead.

5:51PM

Why do you feel like I should have one if you're going to refuse to do the same work you're asking for?
Not having posted doesn't mean you haven't been reading the thread (you not knowing what's in the thread suggests you haven't been reading the thread). There's no reason you couldn't have a list of reads. That said, I'm not too interesting in your putting out a reads list, I'd rather more of this latest post each day in the future.

Because you have been reading the thread and actively filled it with walls of your own words. Besides, you should have a reads list anyway, not because I asked for it, but to help Town. And yes there was a reason; prior to responding I haven't made up my mind on who's who due to lack of content.

I at least appreciate how you view the last post.

Again, you're either just plain uneducated and have no idea what you're talking about, or you're lying through your teeth. If it is easier to post more as town, then if everyone posts as much as possible, scum will be forced to post less by their increased difficulty in doing so. The only exception would be if a player literally always throws the game as town because they want to always be scum or some dumb shit like that. Basically, if it's variable how difficult it is to do something as town/scum, we can literally determine alignment solely by that category if we push it near the limit.
Well I do know what I'm talking about. Personal anectode: the only game I played as scum was also the one where I was most active and engaged. In fact, I'm beginning to fear that the level of activity I had in that game would be picked up by the players from that community as a meta scumtell. This was a game where Town had great activity along with some heavyweights playing. Up to a point in that game, a good chunk of townies had me at the top of their lists, and their realization that I was scum came a few hours before the final mislynch. It wasn't impossibly hard either; I had good cases to use for mislynches.

6:07PM


In 90% of mafia games, 2/3 of this town would be the first player lynched for their crippling inactivity and total refusal to engage in scumhunting, yes.
Which would work if it were one or two. But as you say yourself, it's so widespread that it isn't worth pursuing as of now.


Interesting. What if the outliers post too much compared to the rest (assume all of them are posting fairly regularly)?
That means they're (probably) town
Good homework for me. One day, I'll have the highest post count in a game as scum, I hope.


Potential WIFOM material if they're seen alive Day 2, and I'd rather get rid of it now than later.
I only quoted this because it's funny that you think I'm such a threat to the scum that you expect me to be the target of their scumkill, yet you're also trying to lynch me (because I won't respond to WIFOM, no less).
All I'm getting from this is that I'm a threat to you, pooka. How can you be so confident that I'm not on your team? You know our alignments already, eh mr mafia?
I'm not sure why my name has been blued four times in a single post, but I'll have to play along with it.
I thought I said you wouldn't be nightkilled...let me check my previous posts. Ah, here it is.

in other words I don't know who will be night killed, but I have a strong feeling it won't be Dolores.
I'm certainly not sure where you got the idea that I think you're such a threat to the scum, or how I expected you to be their target. Okay, maybe this is probably it.

If they're both townies, it is very possible that the scum would leave them alive either because they're nowhere close to uncovering the scum, or because they think the scum are town. Keeping track of who they think is OK while they're still alive should be a thing.
In which case, if conditional. I'll add to it with the else conditional just to complete the code: keep track of what they say anyway.

6:30PM

Pooka is insistenting on asking questions which are purely in the realm of WIFOM, and literally interupting my requests that they focus on finding scum to do so.
They are manufacturing a false case on me by trying to frame a lack of engagement with an explicitly antitown activity (useless speculation that only helps scum) as some sort of crime.
They are also doing all this, without having read the thread or my posts.
About your explanation of why you didn't answer, no, I don't think scum would just use random.org and call it a day. In my experience, they want to silence power roles, not vanilla townies. By answering my question, you could, I don't know, give everyone an idea of who you think they suspect is a power role. Thus, the nightkill is more likely to not cost us a power role. And answering this question would also generate some WIFOM for the scum to deal with; nearly all of us answered ICT to that question (even you). Now scum have to weigh if they want to attempt nightkilling ICT; because they know there is a great chance a power role is focused on ICT, so they then have to look elsewhere for a safer choice that also happens to be a potential power role. Read: WORK FOR SCUM. So I don't think my question is without merits.

Also, instead of "requesting" me to scumhunt, request the others to post. Can't scumhunt without material to work with, can I?. And yes, I admit to not reading your posts with ICT. But to compile my reads list, I had to do a quick ISO on the people I did not interact with as much as you or ICT, so I pretty much put some effort to get there.


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Superdorf

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2019, 12:10:17 pm »

Quote from: Votecount
Not voting: Naturegirl1999, Pooka, Questorhank

dolores: TricMagic (1)
hector13: dolores, IonMatrix, IcyTea31 (3)
Naturegirl1999: hector13 (1)
TricMagic: kingawsume (1)

Votes to extend: ---

Day One ends on 2019-10-14 18:00 EST.
Extension is available, requiring 4 votes.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 07:51:31 am by Superdorf »
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IcyTea31

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Re: Not-So-Beginner Mafia 6! [Day 1]
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2019, 02:17:21 pm »

Depending on which of them is scum, I’m guessing dolores or ICT due to comparatively high levels of activity compared to everyone else. Unless they are both scum arguing with each other to get one of them to be thought of as town because why would scum be investigating each other. I think at least one of them possibly both might be town, if this is the case, one of them might be night killed.
So you believe that if neither of us gets killed, both of us must be scum?

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Unless this answer suspecting them being night killed would cause the scum to nightkilk someone else to make town think they both are scum when they might not be because
And that's what WIFOMing yourself feels like. Forget the ifs and focus on what you know.

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why wouldn’t scum kill high activity townies unless those “townies” werent townies
High-activity townies tend to get protected, killing low-activity townies gives less information to the town, and high activity can make for a smokescreen if you play your cards just right. The wine flows.

Also, please answer the questions I asked you before:
Why do you imply that not lynching town is a more important goal than protecting the cop?
How do you plan to use the extend-time to find scum?
How many questions do you expect you will have to ask to get a read on each player?

Also, what's with the wishy-washy voting? Voting for someone and then retracting that vote before they even respond to it looks like throwing it around to see if it sticks rather than actually thinking who is scum.



Well, the usual. Null, leaning town. Not sure why he is choosing between lynching hector and dolores tho.
How do you intend to learn why?

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I mean, which sensible person wont choose the person who quitted?
Someone not going for low-hanging fruit. Let's flip the question: who is your strongest town read and why? I expect an answer longer than one or two sentences.

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I mean, he literally quit.
Being replaced isn't a scumtell, and someone who isn't playing is an easy lynch for scum. Build an actual case based on more than one point, please, and while you're at it, see if you can build a case against someone else. After all, there are two scum.



The more I play with Dolores, the more I see why Hector quit and the more I tempted I am to red them.
Aggressive language isn't alignment-indicative. It's a psychological measure to pressure your target and increase their chance of slipping. Voting someone for reasons other than believing their lynch leads you towards your wincon is highly unsportsmanlike.

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So I save myself the trouble from worrying about activity.
"The scum are so skilled at acting townish, I won't even try to find them."

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Claims, nightkill results if you're a protective power role.
And when (not if) nobody claims their actions?

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You have a point here, it is a believable alibi especially if everyone else claims the same.
Considering the point overturns your entire plan, I'd expected you to put up more of a fight against it.

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Interesting. What if the outliers post too much compared to the rest (assume all of them are posting fairly regularly)?
Then we read them as either being extremely invested in the game, or artificially inflating their post counts. The second is easy to spot, while the first is extremely townish, because scum don't need to invest themselves into the daygame, while townies must.

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Vote to lynch someone today, then the power roles do their work overnights. I'd rather the power roles go for anyone other than you and ICT; I won't specify who because I'd like them to spread over the players. Mass claims can happen as early as Day 2 and we should make the best use of it.
This is a very complacent plan for the most part except the first. How will you decide who to vote to lynch today? Your current vote is a pressure vote (assuming based on that it has little concrete backing).

Here's some maths: if we assume all lynches hit town, all nightkills are successful and random, and that there is only one town power role, there is a more than 25% chance that they're dead by the start of D2, and more than 50% chance they're dead by the start of D3. You can't rely on power roles to carry the game with those odds. What will you do if D2 starts with all power roles dead?

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TricMagic: Neutral, cop claim at the beginning is interesting.
Nobody has claimed cop. Repeating someone else's misconception without checking it yourself is very weak play.

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Questorhank: Neutral, hasn't posted much, but has noted dolores' "are you a vanilla townie?" trick question.
Why is it important that they noted it?

Considering the similarities of our play, why have you put me at the top and dolores at the bottom of your read list? Your primary argument seems to be emotional based on dolores' insulting and obstinate behaviour (even though they're pretty par for the course on obstinacy in my opinion).

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A major world religion has a fixed system of doing things; the five daily prayers of Islam rarely change. A Mafia game is unpredictable, either you spend five minutes responding to a bunch of posts or twenty to deal with dolores' responses to a single person.
It's fine to leave a half-baked posts hanging for a while while you tend to real life, as long as you actually finish them later. The point is to spend time playing and make the game part of your day; taking a prescribed number of prescribed-length breaks to play is just an exaggerated example of how you could do that.

Which would work if it were one or two. But as you say yourself, it's so widespread that it isn't worth pursuing as of now.
No, it's absolutely worth pursuing now, because it's seriously hampering one of the town's most powerful tools.

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In which case, if conditional. I'll add to it with the else conditional just to complete the code: keep track of what they say anyway.
Do you practice what you preach? What's the most important thing I have said in all this game?

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About your explanation of why you didn't answer, no, I don't think scum would just use random.org and call it a day. In my experience, they want to silence power roles, not vanilla townies.
Here's a counter-experience: in one legendary off-site game, that's exactly what the wolves did. This completely stumped the town leader who was trying to use nightkill analysis as their primary scumhunting method (it was a 15-player game so there was more material to analyze than this game will have). They ended up WIFOMing themselves into saying "Everyone, [wolf] must not die!" in what was named one of the craziest blunders made in that forum's history. You're either currently so deep in wine that you're forgetting to hold your breath, or scum.

But here's my question: since you've said that I'm probable to be nightkilled tonight and that scum targets power roles and not vanilla townies, does that mean you believe I'm a power role? If no, why would I be targeted (followup to predicted answer: so you agree with dolores that high activity is dangerous to scum?)? If yes, what's the meaning of the following?
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Now scum have to weigh if they want to attempt nightkilling ICT; because they know there is a great chance a power role is focused on ICT, so they then have to look elsewhere for a safer choice that also happens to be a potential power role.

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Also, instead of "requesting" me to scumhunt, request the others to post. Can't scumhunt without material to work with, can I?
Why do you need another player to get others to provide content for you? The first step to scumhunting is to provoke others to responding to you, which can't really be done second-hand.

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And yes, I admit to not reading your posts with ICT.
A shame, considering those posts are the primary counterargument to lynching dolores.
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