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[tduffell321]

I apologize in advance if there is another forum addressing this topic, however I have been unable to find it here, on reddit, or the wiki .

I've been playing DF for approximately 2 years now (solely fortress mode as Adventure mode does not appeal to me in the slightest) , and I would say its akin to an addiction. I LOVE IT. If I find myself with free time, and I go unmitigated, hours could potentially pass before I realize that the sun is rising and I need to go to work  . With the help of the wiki and various threads, I'd say I have the basics, intermediate, and most of the advanced concepts down. DFhack, has provided many beneficial tools, and help with micromanagement and ease of game-play. What I have not been able to figure out, if it's at all possible, is how to have jobs become re-enabled due to specific input, rather than lack of the output.

To clarify/for example: using the manager to specify production orders, or by using the workflow plugin, one can easily tell your dwarves, should there be less than 10 pig tail bags, begin production until stocks reach 10; or a range say 10-15. Same goes for thread production, alcohol production, thrones, coffers. You get the idea. However I typically don't like to limit the production for certain process-able plants based on the output for fear that the plants will spoil/rot if the end product is not consumed/used (or I am simply not paying attention), plump helmets for example, and then I may run out of seed. This can, depending on food/alcohol source start a bit of a death spiral or a panic, resulting in FUN from bad thoughts or lack of alcohol/food. Also the downtime in between when production can begin versus when it actually begins is inherently inefficient and allows my dwarves to much free time and ill be damned if they don't work themselves to death.

SOOOOOO I find myself constantly enabling jobs that have been suspended at my still, farmers workshops, screw-presses and Millstones once I see that these plants are being harvested/kitchen screen indicates there is more than 0. SOOOOOO essentially I am asking is there a way to have workshops recognize something like:
Cave wheat > 0 begin milling at millstone until cave what < 1??
Plump helmets > 0 begin brewing dwarven wine until plump helmets < 1??
Ect.

[Fleeting Frames]

Input-based start...This, add conditions from 'r'eagants:

||

not what you want?

Also, to answer a more general question in the title and JSYK (though you probably do) you can save micro time by using labormanager or autolabor over assigning jobs manually.

[PatrikLundell]

Loss of produce due to spoiling is generally caused by 3 things:
- Farm produce being left on the fields to wither because there's no stockpile room (or haulers haul more important stuff). I don't know if a lack of harvesters results in spoiling or just delayed replanting.
- Meat (etc.) spoiling at the butchery because the dorfs find it more important to haul other stuff (such as the bones and rotten meat caused by them not keeping up).
- Vermin. I've never positively seen them destroy food, but they're supposed to do so, but if they do the losses are small enough that I don't notice it.

Thus, you should be able to keep producing food, but keep track of the hauler bottlenecks.

It's true food ought to spoil with time, but that's currently not the case (at least not to any extent). That may well change when agriculture is targeted, but at the current DF development rate and with current general development sequence that ought to happen during the 30:ies, and so is nothing to bother about now.

Finally, while it was fine to work dorfs to the bone in earlier versions, the needs system require some socializing/praying/reading for most of them to stay sane, Their emergency Socialize! and Worship! outlets are generally don't satisfy needs to a sufficient level to keep them afloat.

[Atarlost]

I recommend periodically using DFHack to clear unmet needs until they're fixed.  Dwarves cannot take care of their needs on their own and need absurd micromanagement.  They'll do stupid stuff like spend all their free time training with a severe do something creative need, and can't fulfill practice a martial art needs unless they're in an active squad, which conflicts with miner, woodcutter, and hunter assignments.  And also causes them to spend their free time training to the neglect of other needs. 

[anewaname]

Since reducing micromanagement also includes reduces warning messages that request your attention, it is good to avoid having using job manager quantities near 0. Instead of "Plump helmets > 0 begin brewing dwarven wine until plump helmets < 1??", try "... until plump helmets < 30". Having an five hundred items in your fort will not hurt FPS, and you will get fewer shortage messages when a series of jobs trigger to make more soap or something.

[tduffell321]

I would like to specify that with the examples, plumpz just seems to be the easiest to follow. I appreciate all the help!! I will be messing around with all of your suggestions later tonight. THANK YOU !!

Input-based start...This, add conditions from 'r'eagants:

||

not what you want?

Also, to answer a more general question in the title and JSYK (though you probably do) you can save micro time by using labormanager or autolabor over assigning jobs manually.

Please correct me if I am wrong: based on the screen capture, that is saying to ensure that there is at least 10 of unrotten DRINK_MAT-producing plants(i.e. plumps) and at least 10 storage containers (i.e.) pots/barrels?? So once these got to 10 then they would stop no? Would that prevent harvest if the plants were more than 10? My fear is that due to providing a variety of alcoholic beverages the dwarven wine would not go below 10 quickly, and could intern cause some plumps to rot, therefor losing the spawn to start another harvest. This isn't a common occurrence but has happened to me in the past. But you seem to be saying that I can modify these conditions based on the (r)eagents? Or are you saying that I can set it to be atleast 10, so if there is say 100, it will produce until it gets to 10 and then stop, beginning again when it becomes greater than 10, Because in that case, yes that is what I was looking for(and based on my question is what you are probably saying haha). I will play around with work orders later, although I primarily use the workflow plugin.

Secondly YES! I always enable autolabor everytime I load up the game even if save & exit doesn't disable it, just to be safe. I have only dabbled in labormanager and Dwarf Therapist.

Loss of produce due to spoiling is generally caused by 3 things:
- Farm produce being left on the fields to wither because there's no stockpile room (or haulers haul more important stuff). I don't know if a lack of harvesters results in spoiling or just delayed replanting.
- Meat (etc.) spoiling at the butchery because the dorfs find it more important to haul other stuff (such as the bones and rotten meat caused by them not keeping up).
- Vermin. I've never positively seen them destroy food, but they're supposed to do so, but if they do the losses are small enough that I don't notice it.

Thus, you should be able to keep producing food, but keep track of the hauler bottlenecks.

It's true food ought to spoil with time, but that's currently not the case (at least not to any extent). That may well change when agriculture is targeted, but at the current DF development rate and with current general development sequence that ought to happen during the 30:ies, and so is nothing to bother about now.

Finally, while it was fine to work dorfs to the bone in earlier versions, the needs system require some socializing/praying/reading for most of them to stay sane, Their emergency Socialize! and Worship! outlets are generally don't satisfy needs to a sufficient level to keep them afloat.

-Lack of stockpile room is never really a serious issue for me because I set up all of my stockpiles as quantum stockpiles. It has to be one of my favorite exploits, and allows me to produce away without having to worry about constant expansion for stockpiles. However I have noticed on occasion my dwarves won't harvest Quarry bushes, this typically happens in later years with pop > 150 and I haven't been able to remedy it.
-I've never had an issue with meat spoils, as I tend to have most my meats fashioned into meals which increases their longevity, also with a tavern, alcohol and food are consumed in splendor. My biggest concern with spoiling is typically early fortress. Pig tails spoil, so no cloth --> No cloth no bags -->No bags can't mill dimples/cave wheat/process quarry leaves. Then while trying to procure bags the dimples,cave wheat, and quarries that were harvested spoil so no more seeds to plant/ no rock nuts for soap. This is remedied by collecting the wild grown from my underground farms after cavern discovery, it is just a thorn in my side. It is typically because I become focused on another task/ afk while unpaused. Or I get too big for my britches and assumed 7 dwarves can do the work of 25. My fault not my dwarves =(.
-Vermin are never really an issue thanks to my cats being pastured on the food supplies and in my farmplots.

AHH!! I have always just assumed that my dwarves would go to Temple/Library/Meeting halls to take care of their basic needs, similar to their hunger, on their own inclination. I figured that autolabor would help with this as well. Allowing me to work them as much as I'd like, and when it was time to pray they would simply pray and then return to what they were doing. But that would be the emergency need satisfaction you're talking about. This would explain the thoughts like "Has not done (such and such) in a while" or "Missing (insert relative)" that eventually lead to them slowly becoming more depressed. By year 7-10 I usually have a handful or two of dwarves who are on the verge of going mad/starving themselves to death  . I couldn't figure it out despite giving them lavish clothing/encrusted furniture. They have their own rooms, access to a large variety of food and drink. I shall be more kind to my work horses.

Since reducing micromanagement also includes reduces warning messages that request your attention, it is good to avoid having using job manager quantities near 0. Instead of "Plump helmets > 0 begin brewing dwarven wine until plump helmets < 1??", try "... until plump helmets < 30". Having an five hundred items in your fort will not hurt FPS, and you will get fewer shortage messages when a series of jobs trigger to make more soap or something.

Ahh I see, that way I won't be popping into the alerts every 5 seconds to see some mundane message that I already knew or assumed to be true. Is there any way, aside from just ignoring them, to rid myself of such simple messages. Resuming/stopping production messages are great in all, in theory, but I'm expecting the jobs to be done because I ordered them. I feel they are only necessary if materials run out completely.

[Fleeting Frames]

Please correct me if I am wrong: based on the screen capture, that is saying to ensure that there is at least 10 of unrotten DRINK_MAT-producing plants(i.e. plumps) and at least 10 storage containers (i.e.) pots/barrels?? So once these got to 10 then they would stop no?

No, once both got to 10 they would start. If you want to stop, then you need to change ine'q'uality from "at least" to "at most".

Would that prevent harvest if the plants were more than 10?

Nope, not even if at most. Manager orders only check whether condition is met, and place desired number of jobs once met until said jobs are completed or the order is removed. They don't affect harvest (for that refer to what PatrikLundell said).

Workflow does have advantage over manager in that you can specify production of dwarven wine (or dwarven wine roasts) as it runs out without needing a still/kitchen that has only/closest access to plump helmets/wine.

But you seem to be saying that I can modify these conditions based on the (r)eagents? Or are you saying that I can set it to be atleast 10, so if there is say 100, it will produce until it gets to 10 and then stop, beginning again when it becomes greater than 10, Because in that case, yes that is what I was looking for(and based on my question is what you are probably saying haha).

You can set and modify almost any condition you want, 'r'eagants is just a quick hotkey to add conditions based on what the job requires. And yes.

"Has not done (such and such) in a while" or "Missing (insert relative)"

You can't solve missing relative thought expect for the rare situation where you can request that relative by a messenger from a holding attached to your fortress.

Has not done X, well...For many things, it requires substantial micromanagement. Autolabor can contribute to crafting-type needs depletion only, as it doesn't give unskilled dwarves the job if skilled dwarves are available. But that's done with pretty much any labor management scheme.

PS: You can avoid some cancellation spam if you don't use bins (I already assume you don't, but just in case).

[PatrikLundell]

Quantum stockpiles may have unlimited capacity, but the feeder stockpiles do not, and placing stuff into mine carts seems to be a low priority task even among the hauler tasks. I've had much trouble with the plant/fruit feeder stockpile getting full, made worse by growing above ground crops only in spring and by growing every plant known to dwarf capable of being converted into booze.

[tduffell321]

B-E-A-utiful.

I cannot thank you all enough. I had always assumed that the workflow plugin was superior to the manager menu, so I did not use it as much. I will definitely be exploring it much more now. I've left the numbers low for now because I have multiple workorders using either the same input item or the same container, however I am going to play around with those as well. Now i can focus more on these "needs" and "feelings" that you so speak of.

Quantum stockpiles may have unlimited capacity, but the feeder stockpiles do not, and placing stuff into mine carts seems to be a low priority task even among the hauler tasks. I've had much trouble with the plant/fruit feeder stockpile getting full, made worse by growing above ground crops only in spring and by growing every plant known to dwarf capable of being converted into booze.

I cannot say I share the same problems with my quantums. The layout I follow is basically identical to Mechanixm's guide listed here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/2k0zb3/mechanixms_guide_to_better_stockpiling_part_1/
My feeder stockpiles are almost always empty after my fort gets up and going; maybe its an issue with the way the Routes are set up? Also bins and barrels can break a quantum set up because rather then the items being stacked on one space, they are removed and distributed among the feeder stockpiles to maintain quota. I only ever use barrels for Dwarven syrup.
Although as I mention before sometimes my quarry bushes are not harvested in a timely manner as the years go by. I never considered that it was because of lack of room in the feeder stockpiles. I will keep an eye on this on my newest fortress.

[PatrikLundell]

I know exactly why I have problems with my feeder stockpile: a massive influx every spring/summer and not enough haulers (and I don't have enough dorf power to afford dedicated food haulers, which might solve the issue as well). Making the feeder stockpile space larger solves the issue for me, as it provides a sufficiently large buffer.
Note that harvesting is done by everyone (unless you change the default setting), so the hauling to the feeder stockpile is performed largely by skilled craftsmen (with miners being a favorite target: unlike others, they can be pulled from a designated mining task while en route to the mining site, while others are eligible for harvesting jobs only when considering what to do next). If there's no room in the feeder stockpile, however, the harvesting dorf leaves the harvested plant in the plot to wait for a regular food hauling job pickup (which typically doesn't happen as it withers before that, and then becomes a target for the higher priority refuse hauling category, allowing the plant on the plot next to it to wither as well).

[Fleeting Frames]

I've also had that issue with ordering meat of eat animal via caravan. It's like leather of all animals, but more because of 10 organs. Food and refuse (butcher) stockpiles are where I make larger 1-tile feeder stockpiles.

Harvesting also overrides some other tasks like "install hive" iirc - I've seen a dwarf get interrupted in the middle of job, leaving the item on ground to go harvest.

[PatrikLundell]

A problem with the refuse feeder stockpile is that it can get cluttered with FB remains that are too large to fit in the mine cart, and thus won't get moved out of the way. Piles of bone can be processed, but feathers and scales just sit there, so a clean out every 10 years or so to dump the offensive items in an atom smasher/incinerator can be useful (in particular since I've already got a smasher for disposal of invader bits, while an incinerator may fail to destroy some FB bits if they were fire based or made of magma proof materials).

[Atarlost]

A problem with the refuse feeder stockpile is that it can get cluttered with FB remains that are too large to fit in the mine cart, and thus won't get moved out of the way. Piles of bone can be processed, but feathers and scales just sit there, so a clean out every 10 years or so to dump the offensive items in an atom smasher/incinerator can be useful (in particular since I've already got a smasher for disposal of invader bits, while an incinerator may fail to destroy some FB bits if they were fire based or made of magma proof materials).

I use "autodump destroy" to handle large numbers of dead things because it's otherwise nigh-impossible to get them dealt with without driving everyone mad currently.  Everything in the body parts listing that isn't a domesticated animal bone or skull and everything in the corpse list gets deleted after every siege and stuff like forgotten beast corpses gets cleaned out as a side effect. 

[PatrikLundell]

It can be noted that body part horror was adjusted some time ago, so the importance of the body part matters, as well as the allegiance of the creature the body part belonged to. Sapience was already catered for at that point, I think. This means that siege cleanup shouldn't be quite as insanity inducing as it was for a while, and caravans have been observed to pass by dead invaders without self destructing/fleeing (although it can still happen, but half a goblin tooth now seems to be safe, from that perspective).

Corpse hauling is still stressful, and sensitive individuals can go bonkers from seeing the corpse of the enemy just slain by them (while having a grave need to kill things, which was the reason the buggers were sent to clean up the camping invaders in the first place).

Apart from the sometimes massive amount of hauling when a caverns is opened, hauling of corpses (and bits thereof) isn't stress inducing in itself (it's passing by the dead troglos/trolls, etc.), except for individuals who are probably doomed anyway. The bones of non sapient cavern (and surface) creatures are fully usable for crafting, and if you can somehow convince the buggers to haul fresh corpses of non sapients in a timely manner (when there are lots of urgent piles of decade old bones to take care of) they can be butchered for meat.

[Maikcollos]

does anyone really care that much about losing up on some food?
I always have so huge food stockpiles that I would butcher all my cats hoping that the dwarves and vermin at least have a chance at gobbling all of that up