Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Any interest in donations?

Yes
- 3 (30%)
No
- 3 (30%)
Maybe
- 4 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 10


Pages: 1 ... 16 17 [18]

Author Topic: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)  (Read 40727 times)

Mim

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #255 on: May 15, 2020, 08:45:10 am »

Alrighty! That is perfect.
Logged
I am an excellent proofreader... after I click submit.

Thuellai

  • Bay Watcher
  • Nobody's business but the Turks
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #256 on: May 16, 2020, 07:32:34 am »

With the metal rework, rusty iron isn't valid for ranged weapons, only iron and above.  Which would be fine in and of itself, except the metal rework metals are all incredibly valuable (standard wrought iron is almost twice as valuable as vanilla gold, steel is FIVE TIMES the value of gold).  The combined effect makes it extremely expensive to bring hunters on embark, since you can't bring non-metal ranged weapons.  All the weapon sets available to me are 500 points, and that's the cheapest option.  It's a real hit.  I'm sure there are balance decisions influencing all of these, but having a way to cheaply deploy hunters would be appreciated - for my own personal tweaks at the moment, I'll likely just make rusty iron an option for ranged weapons (giving a cheap tool option in the same manner as picks and hatchets) and tweak the other mat values down a bit (maybe x3 original value instead of x5 - I know this stuff is intended to be difficult to import, but this is dwarf fortress.  enough rock crafts will brute force any economic system)

Also, while I get the logic behind reducing the value of old iron and steel in the full rework, it leads to some odd situations.  Mild steel remains reasonably complex to produce, but is a worse material for crafts than a lot of other materials that are much easier to gather/have fewer practical uses than the components of mild steel, leaving pretty much no reason to produce it over any other available flavor of crafting material.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 07:42:07 am by Thuellai »
Logged
When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a building?

"So kids, what story do you want me to read to you tonight?"
"Oooh!  Oooh!  Goldibeard and the The Rotting Corpses!"
~LegacyCWAL

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #257 on: May 16, 2020, 09:30:37 am »

I didn't really want to make rusty iron an available option for weapon sets for the same reason I didn't make it an option for shields - it screws the cost-to-breakability balance.
For hunters, you can bring some wood (if none is on the map) and make ranged weapons out of that. Otherwise, bring and slaughter some cheap animals and make those out of bone. Both are cheaper options that stay within the mod's balance.

As for trade balance, I agree that enough spam can override it in practice, but I had to fair out the product values with the required amount of labor somehow. I wish I could edit item trade values directly, but that's just not an option, unfortunately. So right now it's simply balanced along the lines of "how much more metal bars the modded items take compared to vanilla counterparts?"
It also ties into the whole gamey abstraction thing going on in the mod. I'm not as set on the simulation aspect as Toady is, so the physically outrageous amounts of bars (compared to vanilla, and what a metal bar is supposed to represent in it) - and, by extention, their trade values - are not meant to be taken literally (e.g. "a wrought iron ingot is more valuable than a gold ingot"), but rather as an abstraction of the required labor, tools, measures and future maintenance for the end product(s) these bars are made into.

With mild steel specifically, its role in the Full Edition is a placeholder for now. I just arbitrarily made it cheaper, because it became kinda useless. I'll probably try to find some new and reasonable implementation for it in the future and rebalance the values and creation process along with that.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 09:32:54 am by Sver »
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

Thuellai

  • Bay Watcher
  • Nobody's business but the Turks
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #258 on: May 16, 2020, 12:42:31 pm »

That all makes sense.  Definitely looking forward to seeing mild steel, at least, get more purpose, since it's one of the industries already established.  Losing containers to the various metal-working reactions is a bit rough but I can understand it (it'd take a lot of jank to track materials all the way from making grease to it finally being consumed just so you could return the proper kind of bucket).  Definitely do appreciate the mod, and the way it gives a lot more interaction between varied industries alongside the combat specific stuff.  At least you can bring rusty ammo and hack together wood/bone ranged weapons, I suppose
Logged
When you're following an angel, does it mean you have to throw your body off a building?

"So kids, what story do you want me to read to you tonight?"
"Oooh!  Oooh!  Goldibeard and the The Rotting Corpses!"
~LegacyCWAL

Dubya

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #259 on: May 26, 2020, 07:59:47 pm »

I think you should take another look at ranged weapons, as my sling bullets were glancing off of unarmored goblin heads and getting stopped by their tattered clothes. Pretty much all the ammo is super small, too small to do any damage. Also, I don't think bayberries are the only way you should be able to craft tempered steel, as not every embark will have them. I personally changed the flux recipe to use vinegar instead of the wax because I happened to embark in such a place.

Also, thanks for the mod, it's great
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #260 on: May 27, 2020, 02:54:18 am »

Quote
my sling bullets were glancing off of unarmored goblin heads and getting stopped by their tattered clothes

What is the material of the bullets?
Also, sling bullets are a weaker ammo type overall, they have multiple "failure attacks", which are most likely what these glancing off hits are. That's to counterbalance the fact that slings are cheaper than crossbows, and sling ammo can be made from all sorts of throwaway materials.

Quote
Pretty much all the ammo is super small, too small to do any damage.

Ammo is designed to be only really good in large quantities shot, but the proper types of ammo do well against what they're intended to do well against.
If you want more damage, go for war darts or broadhead bolts. For more armor-piercing go for piercing/hammerhead bolts. Also, as usual, the better is the metal used, the better the performance.

Quote
Also, I don't think bayberries are the only way you should be able to craft tempered steel, as not every embark will have them.

Bayberries are an alternative to beekeeping here, which is the main focus and is the intended soft-lock on steel availability, similar to flux in vanilla (now that flux is not a hard requirement). However, I will probably make some deep cavern shroom into a waxable substance in the future.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 02:56:26 am by Sver »
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

DeedsOfFlesh

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #261 on: May 29, 2020, 11:37:49 am »

Hey there, i downloaded the standalone version of this mod

Im using the Meph tileset and i think it has a couple mods that are conflicting or maybe i just am doing something wrong.  The issue is my dwarves have no pants at spawn XD and there are no pants at all. anywhere. Combat takes forever, even longer.

What i did was drag the text files into dwarf fortress raw objects and then put the for civs/entity default/ entity default.txt into dwarf fortress raw objects entity default.txt.
I overwrote everything and the game works fine, just i have 0 ways of making pants and combat takes way way too long, even longer than before, so im just asking for any tips/help of maybe doing something wrong.
Logged

Mim

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #262 on: May 29, 2020, 12:40:01 pm »

Hey there, i downloaded the standalone version of this mod

Im using the Meph tileset and i think it has a couple mods that are conflicting or maybe i just am doing something wrong.  The issue is my dwarves have no pants at spawn XD and there are no pants at all. anywhere. Combat takes forever, even longer.

What i did was drag the text files into dwarf fortress raw objects and then put the for civs/entity default/ entity default.txt into dwarf fortress raw objects entity default.txt.
I overwrote everything and the game works fine, just i have 0 ways of making pants and combat takes way way too long, even longer than before, so im just asking for any tips/help of maybe doing something wrong.
Well, the lack of pants is because Sver removed pants (due to a bug in vanilla). Pants have been replaced with belts.
"* Legwear has been reworked to account for the Bug 10784. All non-metal pants were removed from entity usage and replaced by belts to prevent soldiers from loosing their pants in combat (no joke): belts can be made from any armor/clothing-grade material, including metal, and their low blockchance prevents them from getting damaged too often. Some bodywear types now cover legs as a replacement for pants."
As for combat taking longer, it's probably a feature of the mod. "Combat is just too fast and random to follow what's going on?"
All quotes taken from - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=170474.msg7747513#msg7747513
Also, you have indeed installed the mod correctly.

On another note, I do have a complaint for Sver: the metallurgy flowchart posted on Imgur is too blurry for me to read, unless I'm doing something wrong. A higher-resolution flowchart would make me very happy  :D
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 02:29:34 pm by Mim »
Logged
I am an excellent proofreader... after I click submit.

DeedsOfFlesh

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #263 on: May 30, 2020, 01:16:49 pm »

aah got u, as for the pants and combat taking longer i have overread most things... anyway thanks for informing
Logged

Sver

  • Bay Watcher
  • An army marches on its oiling and waxing
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #264 on: June 02, 2020, 11:56:17 am »

On another note, I do have a complaint for Sver: the metallurgy flowchart posted on Imgur is too blurry for me to read, unless I'm doing something wrong. A higher-resolution flowchart would make me very happy

Hey! Sorry for the late reply, and thanks for stepping up for me a bit there  :D

As for your problem, imgur has that tendency to change direct image links into indirect ones. Try right click > open image in new tab; that should give you full resolution.
Logged
DF Combat Reworked
No overpowered force transfer, no easy life without a kidney, more functional variety among the weapons and other improvements.

fest88

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: [47.xx] Sver's DF Combat Reworked (update v1.7)
« Reply #265 on: June 07, 2020, 01:53:11 am »

Hallo! i'm download u Full DF Combat reworked and find the bug.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged

Ziusudra

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Logged
Ironblood didn't use an axe because he needed it. He used it to be kind. And right now he wasn't being kind.
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 [18]