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[Tyrant Leviathan]

As for melee, had two ideas.

Weapon: No heat rod/blade. Easy to detect and could harm user, same with Sonics/resonate/vibrio blades. So what then?

Nano machine blades and based on pressure to handle is how deadly they get. Bring a nano machine blade would have zero maintence fee and such.

Just a idea from the original Dey’s Ex game anyway ( Dragontooth Sword.)

2:

A Cyberware plant/jack in suit to let the wearer be hyper aware of surroundings while downloading fighting algorithms to survive combat situations and kill or capture or disable enemy armor as effective as possible.

[Taricus]

The middle would be...mines, slum, and biosphere. All of which should theoretically have both forms of combat. The mines have a notable zone with some close combat, but otherwise we really...don't need it. If we're good enough at long range we should just be able to wipe them out before they get close, while the opposite isn't really true. Shotguns are also noted for having low penetrating power-upgrading our suit a bit should make it difficult for them to use their main close combat weapon.

This being an arms race, there's going to be times where the close quarters thing will come up if it's applicable. We aren't going to have the luxury of just staying back and blasting them. As for shotguns having low penetration, that's only applicable for buckshot, if they get slugs or flechettes, those things are going to be painful.

[Tyrant Leviathan]

Hell yes it will be painful. Slug shots can punch through medical plate mail, like actual shredding it. The thick European grade stuff too.

Flechettes are brutal as hell too, shot that stabs.

[Stirk]

As for melee, had two ideas.

Weapon: No heat rod/blade. Easy to detect and could harm user, same with Sonics/resonate/vibrio blades. So what then?

Nano machine blades and based on pressure to handle is how deadly they get. Bring a nano machine blade would have zero maintence fee and such.

Just a idea from the original Dey’s Ex game anyway ( Dragontooth Sword.)

2:

A Cyberware plant/jack in suit to let the wearer be hyper aware of surroundings while downloading fighting algorithms to survive combat situations and kill or capture or disable enemy armor as effective as possible.

We have guns, and thus have advanced past "pointy thing" technology. If we have the resources to effectively utilize nanobots, transforming them into a sword seems like the least efficient possible use of that technology :V. We could add it to our armor to make us die less and probably still hit things with our nanobot fist, for example. Or use nanobot bullets to grey-goo targets, scouts and trackers to give us a bug-eye view of the battlefield, or just hard to detect nanobot traps. It would be like using cold fusion to forge steel knives instead of powering your war machines.

Guns > melee.

This being an arms race, there's going to be times where the close quarters thing will come up if it's applicable. We aren't going to have the luxury of just staying back and blasting them. As for shotguns having low penetration, that's only applicable for buckshot, if they get slugs or flechettes, those things are going to be painful.

If they go to slugs then they don't have any significant advantage over a rifle in CQB, and flechettes still suck at armor penetration to the point they're known for bouncing off of leaves. They could theoretically work around these limitations, but if we're arguing over their default weapon I'm not worried about it.

Hell yes it will be painful. Slug shots can punch through medical plate mail, like actual shredding it. The thick European grade stuff too.

Flechettes are brutal as hell too, shot that stabs.

....You know what else goes through medieval plate mail? Black powder weapons contemporary to them :V.

[Taricus]

Actually, that isn't true. Plate armour was actually pretty good against black powder weapons. Just that stuff was expensive to make, so you'd generally only see breastplates and helmets.

[Stirk]

Actually, that isn't true. Plate armour was actually pretty good against black powder weapons. Just that stuff was expensive to make, so you'd generally only see breastplates and helmets.

It really depends on what era and weapon we're talking about-the age of the sword lasted into the age of gunpowder, but we are really getting off topic :V.

Point is that, while shotguns are great, they're out of their element in a situation where everyone is in armor that can block pistol caliber rounds consistently. While our enemy could use an action to mitigate or remove this problem, at this point we arn't dealing with their default weaponry anymore and they very well could use said action to produce a long or medium range weapon instead. If our simple armor upgrade renders their CQB advantage useless, then there is no pressing reason to make our own CQB weapons since the "gap" would already be effectively closed.

If we want to design our own shotgun, we could erase this issue by making it reaaaally big and using the special ammunition we talked about, but as I said earlier I wanna go with a machine gun or assault rifle for now.

[Taricus]

And an assault rifle would be the better option of the two.

That being said, we do have three turns before we fight the enemy, so we'll have designs after this to do other things.

[Stirk]

And an assault rifle would be the better option of the two.

That being said, we do have three turns before we fight the enemy, so we'll have designs after this to do other things.

We can have both! With advances in either our biotechnology or power armor, GPMGs could easily end up fulfilling the traditional roll of assault rifles.

Also, one last thing to state is that the Legacy of smith Shotgun fires flechettes as it's munitions, with sufficient force and in sufficient number that any weakpoint in the armor will allow it to be pierced, and that at short range it will pierce through normal armor.

Probably seems to be aimed at this conversation, my point still stands.

Another edit, this time to mess around with the armor (given the discord, it looks like we can modify just the helmet as a Revision?).

"Cyclops" M1 Combat Helmet: An oddity with power armor, people are still thinking of it as a suit of armor rather than a single-person vehicle. The obvious weakpoint on the former helmet leaves us vulnerable to even weapons that fail to pierce armor, unacceptable on a combat vehicle of any kind. We've had this "how do you see out of a metal box" problem solved for centuries - we just have to apply this technology to our equipment. M1 design uses a low-tech solution. The bubble helmet is replaced by a metal bubble, with a single view port well above the head giving it the appearance of an old diving helmet. This view port is attached to a simple periscope made of reflective material, which is attached to a fixed eye piece at eye level. Hardened material is used for the glass of the view port. This allows the user to see without exposing themselves to danger, any attack aimed at the apparent "weak-point" will blind the unit at worst (meaning the suit itself-it isn't like glass will fly down the periscope and through the eye piece).

"Spider" M1 Combat Helmet: Following the same design as the M1, but with a high-tech solution. The periscope is replaced by a set of 8 cameras, 4 on each side, each connected to the same view-port and togglable from a switch added to the back of the glove. 2 cameras on each side read in normal color, with the remaining 2 reading in IR for missions performed in the dark. This allows for 360 degree vision in all situations, with redundant cameras reducing the risk of suit-blindness. The helmet is "ambidextrous", the eye piece can be removed in the field and placed in a second slot on the opposite end of the helmet allowing it to be removed and switched around in the case all frontal cameras are eliminated (so long as field conditions support removing the helmet).

"Paladin" M1 Combat Helmet: Because some people don't have an eye for grand ambition, this is a simple design to reliably increase defense. The bubble helmet is replaced by metal armor, with two vision slits filled with resistant transparent material in a rectangular "visor" pattern. You can see out of them. Bullets can't get in. Objective complete.

[Taricus]

"Janitor" M1 General Purpose MG (1): Stirk
Contherinal Medical Biogel (2): Taricus, Tyrant Leviathan

Fixed and bumping the thread.

I will say that it's probably not a good idea to waste a whole design on a helmet. That's probably just a revision level thing.

[Stirk]

"Janitor" M1 General Purpose MG (1): Stirk
Contherinal Medical Biogel (2): Taricus, Tyrant Leviathan

Fixed and bumping the thread.

I will say that it's probably not a good idea to waste a whole design on a helmet. That's probably just a revision level thing.

I said exactly that :V. We still name revisions.

We could bypass that entirely if we wanted to make a brand new armor design, I guess.

[Taricus]

Which we should do, given we'll want better armour overall in order to meet the needs of protection pretty soon.

That aside, we might want to grab another special resource if we can, and get in early with being able to deploy a node of it.

[Stirk]

Which we should do, given we'll want better armour overall in order to meet the needs of protection pretty soon.

That aside, we might want to grab another special resource if we can, and get in early with being able to deploy a node of it.

Then we'll only have one design left for the new gun, if I can manage to talk you two into that :V.

I still feel the opposite. We should wait on special resources until we know we can actually secure them for utilization, its basically planning to make a 12 piece chicken meal before your eggs have hatched.

Alright, so if we don't want the helmet what else do we wanna spend the revision on? I'm still not sure what the limits are, fancy bullets or attaching a grenade launcher to our gun would probably be my top choices. Something to increase our firepower due to our current lack of machine gun. I'll work out something after we see our results.

[Stirk]

Revision suggestion: APA-1 Rifle Grenade Attachment

In anticipation of greater armored threats in the future, our foot soldiers will need a reliable way to engage heavily armored targets with their primary weapon. This modification should be the first step in giving us a reliable way to remove heavily armored targets from the equation, with further modifications allowing it to effectively engage light armored targets if the enemy moves down an unexpected path. Modifications to the muzzle allow a 400 mm 550 gram fin-stabilized rifle grenade to be attached to the end, with a 50-400 meter sight ladder allowing it to be effectively aimed. The grenade uses a bullet trap to propel itself to the target, allowing a standard round to be chambered for its use. It should be quick to fire, a soldier needs only to place the grenade, chamber a round, aim, and shoot. The grenade itself is a shaped charged that detonates upon nose contact, ideally allowing it to pierce through 350mm+ armor or double that penetration in concrete.

Further (not in this revision) modifications could allow for more grenade types, such as fragmentation to deal with lower-armored targets.

With power armor in the equation, weight becomes less of an issue while armor becomes a major issue. While modern rifles are basically all capable of firing rifle grenades, 40mm support/under-barrel is generally preferred. Power armor generally means we'll need heavier rounds than what a modern soldier would expect to use, we can theoretically ignore the recoil of the grenade and fire this from the shoulder, and we can have every soldier carry multiple grenades thanks to their enhanced strength. Just for a general explanation of why I picked this over a grenade launcher attachment :V

[dgr11897]

Mason Design Phase 1

Contherinal
This biochemical substance was discovered beneath the Europan ice. Biologically active, this substance would eventually prove to be one of the planet's greatest exports; Ideally suited for biological enhancements and retro-viral genetic engineering, Contherinal is essentially a wonder substance that means we can ensure our soldiers are stronger, faster and tougher than the enemy outside of an exosuit.

Contherinal has its limitations, of course, requiring host DNA in order to enact it's changes or construct a new organ, meaning we can't create a whole organism using it unless we're just going for a straight clone of someone. With this in mind though, Conthernial makes genetic and biological enhancements far simpler, by process of genetic identification and molecular growth, the substance is able to easily and swiftly deliver genetic upgrades, which take some time to manifest in a host, or can be used as both a growth medium and bonding material for lab-grown 'bioware'; essentially the biological equivalent of cybernetic enhancements.

(6+4) 10 Normal difficulty, Superior result
Contherinal is a miracle substance when it comes to growing or altering living tissue. Though its origins are mysterious, the substance is what allowed Europa to be colonized at all. Contherinal acts as raw material for genetic enhancements, as it's a mass of cells which lack many of the defense mechanisms that prevent foreign DNA from being implanted into the cells, which allows researchers to plug in new strands of DNA with ease. This, combined with a viral component that spreads the change, allows Contherinal to be used to sculp life into myriad new forms. Unfortunately it hasn’t been produced or harvested in large quantities. Which creates some limitations when it comes to large scale use.

Contherinal Medical Biogel
Developed as an off-shoot of Contherinal's growth properties, Biogel is effectively a convenient and effective field medical substance able to both rapidly heal a wound beyond normal human regeneration, and seal off the hole made in the suit in the process of inflicting said injury while it lasts giving the user time to properly repair their suit under field conditions.

Applied via a handgun-sized applicator directly onto a wound, Biogel is able to generously improve the survivability of our forces through timely and effective field medicine. While it can't cure everything, for gunshot wounds it's more than enough.

(4+3) 7 Normal Difficulty, Average result.
The biogel works, the substance fills up holes in a suit and helps heal holes in people as well. Effective for limiting some battlefield injuries. However, in most scenarios it proves to be a little redundant. As the healing and suit sealing only work on minor breaches, and the response time is about equal between it and the normal suit sealing procedures. Overall, it proves mildly useful, if a little redundant. 1 Contherinal.

Resources
2 Ore, 1 Organics, 0 Contherinal, 0 Advanced components.

Spoiler: Mason Designs (click to show/hide)

Weapons
Mk1 Rifle
A .303 caliber bolt action rifle with an attached bayonet. Sturdy, reliable, and the bayonet won’t rust when exposed to water. As the propellant has its own oxidizer, allowing the weapon to fire in vacuum with little issue. Costs: 1 ore, 1 organics Cheap

Dirty gun
A crude SMG with a tendency to jam. The low caliber ammunition can’t penetrate anything except the faceplate area of the basic LSF1 suits, but with the number of bullets it sprays, that frequently doesn’t matter. Can shoot in space. Cost: 1 ore Cheap

Suits

LSF1-Exo
A survival suit with a powered exoskeleton attached. It’s lightly armored, with a few simple plates being it’s main defense, but it can handle everything from underwater combat to the vacuum of space. The enhanced strength is also great as it allows for brutally effective melee combat. The attached exoskeleton grants a 1.25x boost in strength compared to the average human, and allows people to safely carry larger loads without killing themselves. The suit it’s based off of is manufactured en masse by the automatic systems aboard the arcology as a standard survival suit, said suit could be used as the basis for future power armor, as it provides a solid life supporting base we could strap further enhancements to. Cost: 1 ore, 1 organics Cheap

LSF 1 life support survival suit:
This mildly hardened suit, capable of surviving both vacuum and extreme depths, is mass manufactured by the automated systems up to a quota of 1 suit per person. These suits have mounting points for an optional exo rig, which both sides have taken advantage of. Unfortunately for those using it in combat, it has a large bubble helmet with lights on it that is Exceptionally vulnerable to being shot.Consider this thing Cheap

Misc Gear

Survival kit:
A small set of stuff that comes with every suit, includes a large knife, multitool, emergency battery, emergency suit patch kit, flaregun, and a flashlight. Mostly useful for the knife and other miscellaneous gear. The knife is of decent quality, though not meant for combat which means its a little awkward to use in melee. Also cheap

Contherinal Biogel:
A Medical gel administered through a small handgun like apparatus. Heals gunshot wounds and seals up suits, but isn’t particularly useful in the field due to it not really being faster to grab and use than a suit patch. It does mildly improve survivability, but not by much. 1 Contherinal Expensive

Misc

Contherinal:
Contherinal is a miracle substance when it comes to growing or altering living tissue. Though its origins are mysterious and alien, the substance is what allowed Europa to be colonized at all. Contherinal acts as raw material for genetic enhancements, as it's a mass of cells which lack many of the defense mechanisms that prevent foreign DNA from being implanted into the cells, which allows researchers to plug in new strands of DNA with ease. This, combined with a viral component that spreads the change, allows Contherinal to be used to sculp life into myriad new forms. Unfortunately it hasn’t been produced or harvested in large quantities. Which creates some limitations when it comes to large scale use. We suspect contherinal to possess greater potential than it lets on.

It is now Revision Phase 1

[Stirk]

Revision suggestion: APA-1 Rifle Grenade Attachment

In anticipation of greater armored threats in the future, our foot soldiers will need a reliable way to engage heavily armored targets with their primary weapon. This modification should be the first step in giving us a reliable way to remove heavily armored targets from the equation, with further modifications allowing it to effectively engage light armored targets if the enemy moves down an unexpected path. Modifications to the muzzle allow a 400 mm 550 gram fin-stabilized rifle grenade to be attached to the end, with a 50-400 meter sight ladder allowing it to be effectively aimed. The grenade uses a bullet trap to propel itself to the target, allowing a standard round to be chambered for its use. It should be quick to fire, a soldier needs only to place the grenade, chamber a round, aim, and shoot. The grenade itself is a shaped charged that detonates upon nose contact, ideally allowing it to pierce through 350mm+ armor or double that penetration in concrete.

Further (not in this revision) modifications could allow for more grenade types, such as fragmentation to deal with lower-armored targets.

With power armor in the equation, weight becomes less of an issue while armor becomes a major issue. While modern rifles are basically all capable of firing rifle grenades, 40mm support/under-barrel is generally preferred. Power armor generally means we'll need heavier rounds than what a modern soldier would expect to use, we can theoretically ignore the recoil of the grenade and fire this from the shoulder, and we can have every soldier carry multiple grenades thanks to their enhanced strength. Just for a general explanation of why I picked this over a grenade launcher attachment :V

APA-1 Rifle Grenade Attachment (1): Stirk