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Author Topic: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Game Over - Mafia Win!  (Read 36885 times)

IcyTea31

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #105 on: December 21, 2019, 06:22:19 am »

Still PFP.

Unvote

I don't actually think Superdorf or FoU are very scummy. TricMagic, however, is worth lynching for the simple lack of play allowing him to completely avoid being read or reading anyone. It's not even the activity, it's the investment; with a history of non-play, it's not worth keeping him around doing night actions which then have to be begged for to be explained to anyone else, no matter how important they may be.
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #106 on: December 21, 2019, 07:45:16 am »

I guess I’ll change my vote to FallacyOfUrist though I only suggested Persus could be scum not that I would go forefront with the vote  though I find it questionable that Tric would vote for Naturegirl since I really don’t see any questionable reason why she would be scum maybe because of the lack of posts?, she was scum on a previous mafia game okay but that doesn’t have enough substantial evidence besides the random chance to get lynched.

I still see no benefit in a random lynch, I’m sure this game and the roles lack things like “sheriff” and “investigator” that allows a player to get the role of another, but how to tell the player that your not scum and trying to get a benefit from a lynch and a scum kill a night?, anyways I haven’t really looked deep into the power source code but their could possible be a investigative power like that as superdorf as shown, anyways I don’t see the benefit of lynching a player just based on previous bad behavior on other mafia games. For TricMagic, yeah the lack of inactivity is weird since he’s seems too be very aggressive with the Arm Race games, and begging for night actions to say if he had a beneficial power, you’d just have to tell him on the previous day to use that power

The reason for voting for FoU, the aggressive Pack wolf play seems averse and he hasn’t made any point why he be useful for town rather then these claims but idk

Vote FallacyOfUrist
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 09:03:14 am by Shadowclaw777 »
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notquitethere

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #107 on: December 21, 2019, 08:08:10 am »

Please put any votes in red and bold if they are to be counted.
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dolores

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #108 on: December 21, 2019, 08:46:56 am »

policy vote on TricMagic
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notquitethere

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #109 on: December 21, 2019, 09:09:02 am »

D1 Votes
Superdorf
Persus13
Dolores
TricMagic - Naturegirl1999, Icytea31, Dolores [3]
FallacyofUrist - Deus Asmoth, Superdorf, Shadowclaw777 [3]
Deus Asmoth
Naturegirl1999
Shadowclaw777 - Persus13 [1]
Icytea31 - FallacyofUrist [1]

Hammer: 5 votes. Day ends: 21st December 4.30pm GMT (about 2 hours time).

Please don't edit posts, just make another post if you want to make a correction.
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Superdorf

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #110 on: December 21, 2019, 09:12:09 am »

I find it questionable that Tric would vote for Naturegirl since I really don’t see any questionable reason why she would be scum maybe because of the lack of posts?, she was scum on a previous mafia game okay but that doesn’t have enough substantial evidence besides the random chance to get lynched.

Uhh TricMagic didn't vote Naturegirl.
Spoiler: Last votecount (click to show/hide)

He did speak to Naturegirl-- briefly-- kind of--

Naturegirl: Hit me with a question.

--but it wasn't much of a conversation.  ::)

I still see no benefit in a random lynch, I’m sure this game and the roles lack things like “sheriff” and “investigator” that allows a player to get the role of another, but how to tell the player that your not scum and trying to get a benefit from a lynch and a scum kill a night?, anyways I haven’t really looked deep into the power source code but their could possible be a investigative power like that as superdorf as shown, anyways I don’t see the benefit of lynching a player just based on previous bad behavior on other mafia games.

You still seem to be caught up with this idea of the D1 lynch being a random lynch. It's not a random lynch. Depending on the skill of all involved, we can significantly increase our chances of lynching mafia-- or at least, of lynching a relatively unhelpful townie who would've confused us later.

So too: by lynching now rather than later, we get information to guide the next lynch. By choosing to lynch somebody-- anybody-- we generate valuable pages of heated debate that we can reference later. (If we had all chosen the no-lynch today out of simple policy, would we have such interesting reads and suspicions now?) By the roleflip of the dead player we can determine the veracity of that player's words, and we can assess the motivations of those who worked to condemn or exonerate that player. With the nightkill, scum can choose what information we get from player death, if any-- not so with the lynch. This Day gives we the town a valuable opportunity to take the flow of information into our own hands: an opportunity well worth taking!

You speak of investigative roles. We don't want to count on investigative roles. We cannot trust those who claim investigative roles-- not without the social information that we gain now, partly by means of the lynch. So too, those of us who might have investigative roles are guided by that social information as they decide who to target this Night.

The reason for voting for FoU, the aggressive Pack wolf play seems averse and he hasn’t made any point why he be useful for town rather then these claims but idk
On this note, I've a question for you. Which is worse, in your mind: the lurker, or the "power wolf"?
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #111 on: December 21, 2019, 09:29:27 am »

I find it questionable that Tric would vote for Naturegirl since I really don’t see any questionable reason why she would be scum maybe because of the lack of posts?, she was scum on a previous mafia game okay but that doesn’t have enough substantial evidence besides the random chance to get lynched.

Uhh TricMagic didn't vote Naturegirl.
Spoiler: Last votecount (click to show/hide)

He did speak to Naturegirl-- briefly-- kind of--

Naturegirl: Hit me with a question.

--but it wasn't much of a conversation.  ::)

I still see no benefit in a random lynch, I’m sure this game and the roles lack things like “sheriff” and “investigator” that allows a player to get the role of another, but how to tell the player that your not scum and trying to get a benefit from a lynch and a scum kill a night?, anyways I haven’t really looked deep into the power source code but their could possible be a investigative power like that as superdorf as shown, anyways I don’t see the benefit of lynching a player just based on previous bad behavior on other mafia games.

You still seem to be caught up with this idea of the D1 lynch being a random lynch. It's not a random lynch. Depending on the skill of all involved, we can significantly increase our chances of lynching mafia-- or at least, of lynching a relatively unhelpful townie who would've confused us later.

So too: by lynching now rather than later, we get information to guide the next lynch. By choosing to lynch somebody-- anybody-- we generate valuable pages of heated debate that we can reference later. (If we had all chosen the no-lynch today out of simple policy, would we have such interesting reads and suspicions now?) By the roleflip of the dead player we can determine the veracity of that player's words, and we can assess the motivations of those who worked to condemn or exonerate that player. With the nightkill, scum can choose what information we get from player death, if any-- not so with the lynch. This Day gives we the town a valuable opportunity to take the flow of information into our own hands: an opportunity well worth taking!

You speak of investigative roles. We don't want to count on investigative roles. We cannot trust those who claim investigative roles-- not without the social information that we gain now, partly by means of the lynch. So too, those of us who might have investigative roles are guided by that social information as they decide who to target this Night.

The reason for voting for FoU, the aggressive Pack wolf play seems averse and he hasn’t made any point why he be useful for town rather then these claims but idk
On this note, I've a question for you. Which is worse, in your mind: the lurker, or the "power wolf"?
1) Yeah I was very confused with the TricMagic voting NG thing

2) Yeah sure it gets this kind of heated debate, but the only evidence you get is the words people say, no roles or powers, whatever have comes into play yet so the result is that the person who gets lynched, was only because of the argument one makes. Their are more town in place compared to the scum, this so-called random voting stage and the random vote means the person who gets lynched is because, especially if they were town, is that it was because maybe this townie couldn’t make a good enough argument to sway the other towns and then you lynch a town, another person scum doesn’t have to spend a night action to get rid off. The main question I really don’t see any informative proof based on day 1 of any one who seems “suspect”, only really vendettas and issues with the player’s play style on these type of game. More often than not, even if we try to think that we take the persons argument in consideration, the towns loses a voter and power for following turns while the scum benefits.

Edit: Also mind you is their is also the generic kind of mafia, where only arguments with others can be used instead of dealing with the “meta” of roles and power and that’s the only thing you can rely on, so that’s we’re doing day 1 (or maybe “day 0”) lynch seems more satisfactory and the correct thing to do because everyone can chime in.

3) As stated before the “power wolf” in my view is clearly the most deadly and most likely to work, especially with an incompetent or ill-experienced group, is clearly the best for scum for winning. By taking their arguments to their side of the towns, you pick the towns off both by lynching and the night killing, and everything things your town, maybe the “information” you provided was just incorrect but by taking control of the line of thought for town is the way for scum to win. A lurker has the advantages of staying of the radar of everyone’s eyes, but theirs always the possibility your an inactive town or whatever, people will always try to get you in the line of discussion, for a play by post game it’s much more easier to ask questions to everyone in the given timeframe of multiple days instead of a thirty minute game, meaning the chance of not catching people’s attention is that much more difficult and less likely to happen.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 09:34:07 am by Shadowclaw777 »
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Persus13

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #112 on: December 21, 2019, 09:34:19 am »

We've currently got a tied vote with two hours left until day end, so I'm going to vote for TricMagic to break the tie. I don't know what's stopping Tric from posting, but Fallacy is at least here and posting, even if he's been focused on IcyTea and Superdorf a lot.
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Persus13

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #113 on: December 21, 2019, 09:42:34 am »

Also Shadow, I don't see any specific rule about it for this game, but editing posts in a Mafia game tends to be frowned on.
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Superdorf

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #114 on: December 21, 2019, 09:46:10 am »

Oh, yeah, absolutely do not edit your own posts. That's the kind of thing that can get you modkilled with extreme prejudice.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #115 on: December 21, 2019, 10:03:29 am »

I have several problems with this post and a lengthy argument to make, but I can't be bothered with the formatting before I can get to an actual computer, which sadly is probably only after day end.

In short: forget about evidence, forget what people say when they describe their playstyles and whatnot, and focus on how and why they are saying what they are.
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #116 on: December 21, 2019, 10:39:26 am »

It’s against my inner nature to double post because I like to be as concise as possible when I try to post but yes I can see myself with them, and fulfilling them with inner rambling. The only reason to edit was to make the reasoning coherent it’s as simple as that, though I will try to rely on additional posting to get the point across for the future

The judgement of mine about the lack of judgement on the first day, and trying to utilize the how and why is simple, unless the person isn't being arbitrary or excessively not rationalizing what they are saying and the things they are stating, you can’t really confer that they are scum. While their is still the possibility you can get the advantage head of you, I imagine day one lynches have often resulted in the target being town, and even if that player is a bad town player, sure the game benefits as a whole from it but town just loses another voter swaying in it favor of town.
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IcyTea31

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #117 on: December 21, 2019, 10:48:34 am »

trying to utilize the how and why is simple, unless the person isn't being arbitrary or excessively not rationalizing what they are saying and the things they are stating, you can’t really confer that they are scum.
Then find the ones who are trying to do that, and those who don't have to; also known as scum and town, respectively. Remember, only scum have to be deceptive, town don't need to be.
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notquitethere

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #118 on: December 21, 2019, 11:01:40 am »

D1 Votes
Superdorf
Persus13
Dolores
TricMagic - Naturegirl1999, Icytea31, Dolores, Persus13  [4]
FallacyofUrist - Deus Asmoth, Superdorf, Shadowclaw777 [3]
Deus Asmoth
Naturegirl1999
Shadowclaw777
Icytea31 - FallacyofUrist [1]

Hammer: 5 votes. Day ends: 21st December 4.30pm GMT (about 30 minutes time).
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Superdorf

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Re: Proc Gen Mafia 3 - Day 1 - 1 replacement needed
« Reply #119 on: December 21, 2019, 11:17:28 am »

It’s against my inner nature to double post because I like to be as concise as possible when I try to post but yes I can see myself with them, and fulfilling them with inner rambling. The only reason to edit was to make the reasoning coherent it’s as simple as that, though I will try to rely on additional posting to get the point across for the future

The trouble is, editing can also be used to cover up scummy mistakes as if they never happened-- hence the strict policy.
The "Preview" button is your friend! Make your edits for concision and coherence before you post. :)
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