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Author Topic: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2  (Read 35857 times)

Haspen

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #105 on: April 28, 2020, 02:11:02 pm »

Not only the war is short, the world signs another treaty.

Damn those penpushers, they're killing all the fun! *shakes fist*
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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2020, 02:12:24 pm »

How much are those old BBs costing us to maintain? Dunno how viable it would be to scrap one or two of them while we build a newer BB to keep our numbers level. After we finish the current commitments in construction a bit of a freshening up of the DD forces wouldn't be amiss since by the looks of it we mostly got parity with our potential rivals (tho germany seems to be going for quite a few heavy/battle-cruisers, do we have info on their capabilities')
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King Zultan

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #107 on: May 01, 2020, 06:29:39 am »

It sounds like it might be cheaper to rebuild some of the ships that are in service and bring them up to modern standers than to build new ones, and we probably should scrap the oldest ones that are mothballed.

Is selling the old ships to poor countries an option, I'm assuming its not but it would be nice if it was.
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Fishbreath

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #108 on: May 04, 2020, 04:48:49 pm »

Collating all the feedback as usual, I have four recommendations:

  • Rebuild an old battleship or two. I'm going to rebuild Marseilles, on the basis that our battlecruisers were always heavily armored and can be brought up to the speed of our new battle line much more readily. I may do one of the Redoubtables, or I may put them on the scrap heap. Devastation will probably go soon too.
  • Update our light forces some, as I'm able. A Glaive-alike won't be too too spendy, and will help us move away from the obsolete Harpons.
  • Build to treaty limits for the next battleship. It'll be expensive, but intentionally building a second-rate battleship is risky.
  • Build the next aircraft carrier bigger, to get a proper 1930-ish air wing of 70 to 80 planes.

And we're off!

February 1929

We now have advanced gun directors for our ships, making them yet more accurate, and meaning we have to install them on yet more ships. I think I might pop them onto the Rouen-class battlecruisers first, since they're now marked obsolete.

April 1929

Bearn enters service. Because we still, evidently, haven't unlocked the secret to building our own dive bombers, I buy a license to build the British Gloster Goblin. Bearn's air wing is nine torpedo bombers, 18 dive bombers, and 19 fighters. Not bad. Maybe we'll try another exercise this summer, or in summer 1930.

October 1929

Having asked for a new fighter a few months back to match our new torpedo bombers, I pick a new one which can match our torpedo bombers and dive bombers for range.

December 1929

In the last two months, I traded a bit of prestige for a bit of budget, and a bit of tension for a bit of prestige. Worthwhile, in the end, although we are also tweaking Britain slightly.

We make an important advance in fleet tactics: in large battles, aircraft carriers will operate in their own force, meaning that a) I can control them directly even if they're out of sight of the battleship force's flagship, and b) they'll start well out of the way of the enemy, generally.

March 1930

A colonial crisis with Great Britain leads to increased tensions, but also massively increased budget.

I use it on Joffre, a new aircraft carrier.



She's not the fastest of carriers, but with a 78-plane air wing, she is quite a capable one.

We'll lay down the first ship in five months.

May 1930

Or perhaps a bit later than that. A new liberal government takes over, slashing naval budgets. (Happily, not slashing naval budgets too much.)

June 1930

I can just fit the rebuilds of Rouen and Nancy (to use advanced director fire control) in before Courbet and Marseille leave the yards, which I elect to do.

That way, it'll be October, and I'll be able to reserve some money the use of which we can discuss prior to the next update.

August 1930

Since we have a pile of money sitting around, I upgrade some of our strategically-important airbases to 60-plane capacity. That group includes the one at Dunkerque, which is well-sited for wars with potential North Sea foes Britain and Germany, and the ones framing Italy and Austria-Hungary in the Mediterranean.

December 1930



If you scratch the politicians' backs, they'll scratch yours.

Some of the money goes toward equipping some new squadrons on our new airbases. I'm reserving the rest until next month.

January 1931

Another uneventful update passes.

Plans and Intentions

Tensions are highest with Britain and Austria-Hungary, at 4 and 5 (of 12 before war), respectively.

Budget

Our annual budget, 358,300 funds, is on par with Germany's and only 20,000 less than Britain's—our wars have been successful, between reparations and worthwhile colonies, at enhancing our monetary capacity to wage further wars.

We spend 8,863 funds per month on ship maintenance, 4,639 on aircraft maintenance (the French naval air service is the largest in the world), and 5,653 on other items, leaving a budget of 10,703 funds per month for construction.

Shipbuilding

At the moment, we're building ten submarines and our new fleet carrier Joffre.

Ship Planning

We didn't get a new battleship laid down this update, instead electing to rebuild three ships (Marseilles and the two Rouen-class battlecruisers) and lay down Joffre.

Obviously, that would be a good thing to remedy over the next two years. So, what manner of battleship will we be building? A 30-knot ship with 14" guns, or a 27-knot ship with 16" guns? (At present, our battle line is good for 25 knots, or 26 knots if we leave Requin behind.) That'll account for around 4,000 funds per month.

Of our obsolete battleships, Marengo is the only one left. We could rebuild her to 26-knot speed, given 14 months at 2,300 funds per month, or we could scrap her. Scrap her or rebuild her? Note we have eight other battleships to Germany's nine (although Germany also has eight battlecruisers to our zero, and we're far superior to Germany in naval aviation).

Whatever we do with Marengo, we'll have ten months or so at the end of the update during which to build some new ships. A thoroughly modern light cruiser, with triple turrets, anti-air armament, and room for a scout plane will cost us around 1,850 funds per month, while a modern destroyer with 5" guns, anti-air armament, and a huge pile of torpedo tubes will cost us around 450 funds per month. So, after Marengo's rebuild (or in place of it), we could build five new destroyers at once, or one new destroyer and one new light cruiser. How should we update our light forces: more destroyers, or a destroyer-cruiser mix?

Finally, we have two 27-knot heavy cruisers on hand which date back to 1919 and 1920. They're too slow to play heavy cruiser in the modern era. We could scrap them, or we could convert them to light carriers. In the latter case, they'd be able to carry 24 aircraft a pop, and we could bump their speed to 29 knots, for a 12-month/2,180-funds rebuild—effectively, two light carriers for the price of one purpose-built new hull. What should we do with the Montcalms?

How much are those old BBs costing us to maintain? Dunno how viable it would be to scrap one or two of them while we build a newer BB to keep our numbers level. After we finish the current commitments in construction a bit of a freshening up of the DD forces wouldn't be amiss since by the looks of it we mostly got parity with our potential rivals (tho germany seems to be going for quite a few heavy/battle-cruisers, do we have info on their capabilities')

A mothballed battleship costs about as much as three active destroyers or a very cheap active light cruiser to maintain.

The German battlecruisers, at least the classes I have information on, are only a knot or two faster than our battle line—they're largely older ships now. Their heavy cruisers are up at 31-32 knots, but much more lightly armored than our (slower) ships.

King Zultan

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #109 on: May 06, 2020, 04:20:17 am »

I think we should rebuild the Marengo, and the Montcalms should become light carriers.

What chances would we have if we went to war with the UK, are we screwed or could we win?
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EuchreJack

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #110 on: May 08, 2020, 05:39:29 pm »

I don't think we're UK-level yet.  I mean, we could probably fight them long enough to peace out without losing territory, but their "always having a bigger budget than you" perk is tough to beat.

Fishbreath

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #111 on: May 09, 2020, 09:00:53 pm »

EuchreJack has the right of it. We could survive, but I don't think we'd win—the numerical advantage is just too great, and air power (in which we are the world leaders, at least when we're in range of our land-based air) is not yet enough of a deciding factor to tip the scales in our favor.

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #112 on: May 11, 2020, 06:53:27 pm »

At the end of the last update, I asked four questions. Here they are again, with (the answers):

  • Big guns or high speed for the next battleship? (Majority favors big guns.)
  • Rebuild or scrap Marengo? (Approximately a tie, so I'll break it: scrap her.)
  • Destroyer-cruiser mix, or destroyers? (Destroyers win by a country mile.)
  • Montcalms to light carriers? (Approximately a tie, so I'll scrap one and carrier-ize the other.)

January 1931

Time to get some ship designs... designed.



In honor of the dear, departed Marengo, I name this new class of ships Marengo. 16" guns, AA directors, level 4 torpedo protection, and a seaplane hangar and catapult. Still only 27 knots against our ~30-knot carrier fleet, but she's not so much slower that she'll be entirely left behind.

Montcalm goes to the scrappers, while her counterpart Bruix becomes a 29-knot, 24-plane light carrier.



Our new destroyers will be called the Epee class. Because we haven't figured out dual-purpose main guns or dual turret mounts on destroyers yet, they're still notably inferior to their Austrian counterparts, but nevertheless a good followon to our existing Glaives. They are a bit spendy, though—two at once, for the moment.

April 1931

Catastrophe! Tensions are low, and Parliament votes to reduce naval spending. I think we'll still be able to fit Marengo in, but it might scupper our plans for a fleet exercise this summer.

May 1931



Ah, what timing, after we just designed a new class.

Honestly, though, I'm not inclined to redesign it until we have dual-purpose guns and twin mounts for destroyers.

French scientists also work out +1 quality 14" guns. Regunning Ocean, Suffren, and Courbet will make them much better ships at very little cost—4 months at 718 funds per month, plus a litle extra for Ocean and Suffren to retrofit better fire control.

July 1931

Blueprints for an Austrian cruiser suggest that our sole remaining cruiser is still superior.



In fleet tactics, we've figured out reliable voice radio, which will further reduce the likelihood of signaling errors during battle. We also develop improved arrestor wires, and buy a slightly longer-legged torpedo bomber from Dewoitine.

September 1931

The Navy League mobilizes against a new government attempting to cut naval spending, at the cost of very mildly increased tensions with Germany.

January 1932

Bruix finishes her rebuild and ten new submarines are launched this month, freeing up the budget for rebuilds of Ocean and Suffren to use the most advanced 14" guns and fire control available. (Suffren packs on some more AA, too.) In addition, there's money for another pair of Epee-class destroyers.

August 1932

With money in the bank and no wars on the horizon, it's time for a quick exercise.

Fleet Exercise 1932

The goal: see how well our heavily-armored and AA-gunned battleships can do against determined air attack. Ocean, Suffren, and Marseilles (the latter as a control) face off against Bearn, Bruix, and Arromanches, each side with small supporting forces.

It's a nice day, and over the course of the first hour, recon planes take off and head for the horizon.

Answering a reader question, they are in fact biplanes.

Something I didn't realize when I bought the Gloster Goblin license was that it's relatively short-legged compared to our torpedo bombers. (The yellow circle against the purple one.)



Also of note in the preceding image: the enemy force has been spotted. The course and composition in the scouting report look good, so I'm going to gamble a bit on the whole report being high-quality and throw a Sunday punch at it.



That's... 53 planes. Not our whole force (we can't launch every plane without leaving some below deck and spotting them after the first wave launches), but not bad for 1932. They'll be on target at around 2 p.m., against 12:55 right now.

Or sooner, maybe.



At 1:06, the screening light cruisers come across enemy light forces, then turn tail and run toward the carriers.



By 1:23, a number of planes are already in the air. (They're going piecemeal, since I didn't hit the 'coordinate strike' button, but I think that's okay given that they aren't facing any CAP. Also, we haven't developed coordinated multi-carrier strikes yet anyway.)

At 1:36, a formation of 8 torpedo bombers and 9 dive bombers approach enemy ships. Four minutes later, I get the first results in the combat log.



A few dive bomber hits on a destroyer, but withering AA fire from the dual-purpose guns on the battleships seem to blunt the torpedo strike pretty effectively.

By 1:46, the first wave seems to have wrapped up, with the AA guns the clear victors. The total score is three bomb hits, two on a destroyer and one on what the log reported as a battlecruiser—perhaps Marseilles?

At 2:15, aircraft begin returning. I ready them for a second strike.

It, and indeed the wargame as a whole, are the definition of inconclusive. The strike comes across what seems to be a dispersed enemy force, focusing more on the seaplane tender (Commandant Teste) accompanying the battleship force than any of the heavy units.

The final tally after two large strikes is one torpedo hit and two bomb hits, spread across Marseilles and Commandant Teste. (The reported hits on a destroyer must have been fog of war.) Teste took heavy damage, Marseilles took light damage.

Very few of the torpedo bombers made accurate launches, and the dive bombers didn't obtain a great measure of glory, either. In Rule the Waves, light and medium AA are much more important for causing inaccuracy in attacking aircraft, rather than actually destroying them. That seems to be borne out by today's results, and suggests that a retreat in carrier building over the next few years might be wise.

September 1932

The traditional upheaval in an African colony results in a budget bump and a rise in tensions. Austria might be the next war.

October 1932

Joffre enters service. Her air wing is 26 each of fighters, torpedo bombers, and dive bombers.

Her completion, along with an increase in budget from the rising tensions with Austria, permit me to lay down a second Marengo-class battleship—the first time we've had two battleships under construction at the same time in almost two decades.

January 1933

Austria-Hungary has seized a colony, and not just any colony, Morocco. This cannot stand! That's our northwest-African slice of the pie!

In less affronting news, we can now build destroyers with twin turrets.

Status: Image Dump Style

I'm a bit behind already this week, so it's going to be light on analysis and heavy on information.

Finance and Diplomacy





Naval Comparison



The Fleet



Shipyards



Plans and Intentions

I think it's obvious that we should go to war with Austria and take Morocco from them—it's an affront that they have it in the first place.

Beyond that, it seems like the question is, should we go all-in on air power, or wait until the 1935 update (or later)? We have two brand-new battleships coming, one in early 1934 and one in mid-1935, Magenta and Marengo. As they leave the yards, should we replace them with Joffre-style fleet carriers? Or should we continue the battleship-building program into the late 1930s?

And, since that's a fairly specific question, do you have any thoughts about our strategic direction? Anything I'm neglecting to consider? Anyone else I should be picking fights with? Feedback generally?

EuchreJack

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #113 on: May 11, 2020, 09:27:06 pm »

You've shown the effectiveness of AA.  Historically, several battleships would see refits in the 30s to increase their AA.  Are all our battleships so outfitted?  If not, I would suggest that they should be.

Might be a tad early to go all-in on airpower.  The AI seems capable of loading down their new designs with AA in this era.

Our current carrier force seems sufficient, although we'll need to update/expand it in a few years.  What we NEED is a 30 knot BB/BC.  Our single old heavy cruiser can't do all the work.

I can see that it's probably best to wait until we get a few more destroyer techs before designing a cheap destroyer escort.

Haspen

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #114 on: May 11, 2020, 11:59:39 pm »

I say wait with that all-air power idea, concentrate on the incoming war with Austria. Especially that they don't seem to have any CVLs.

Dang Austria, stealing Morocco of all things!
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King Zultan

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #115 on: May 12, 2020, 03:06:53 am »

Lets focus on kicking the shit Austria for stealing our shit.
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Knave

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #116 on: May 12, 2020, 03:08:04 pm »

I too concur with operation Curb-Stomp Morocco as well as the slowing down of our carrier program for a few years until more advances can be made.
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Jopax

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #117 on: May 12, 2020, 05:25:47 pm »

Aye aye on picking on weaker nations to grind out more cash money for more better guns on more better ships!

Also yeah, I'd say focus on BBs for now, not only because they seem to be still fairly effective but also because ships with big guns are way cooler than a floating runway can ever hope to be.
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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #118 on: May 12, 2020, 07:26:47 pm »

A certain Austrian painter is currently becoming very famous.

Perhaps Germany next, eh? Before they get too cocky?
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Fishbreath

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Re: Vive la France: Let's Play Rule the Waves 2
« Reply #119 on: May 12, 2020, 07:41:09 pm »

Noteworthily, the French naval budget is currently greater than the German naval budget, the first time that's happened since 1900. (Or at least, the first time I noticed it.)

There's a strong consensus developing on a 30-knot battleship, so I might cancel Magenta and rebuild her with 14" guns and higher speed, or rebuild her on the ways, if such a thing is possible.
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