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[wormpattern]

Is it 47 compatible?
I am getting crash on end of world creation.

[SQman]

It should not be 47 compatible. I've uploaded the latest version about a year ago, so...

Speaking of 47.01, I'll have to update everything including entities and languages. Admittedly, that won't be too hard or too much work; I thought it would be much more. Of course a lot of mods will need to be updated once modders get their hands on new interaction possibilities, so I'm not really adding anything new right now; I'll have enough work with ZM5's mods that are already included.

I'll have to play some vanilla DF to get back into the actual game. I haven't made a decent fort since Dungeonevened, and I still haven't done any raiding. I was treating this update with a good deal of scepticism, dismissing it as a mostly worldgen thing (which it sort of is); I'm more than willing to wait for bugfix updates, thanks to this hype control technique of mine.

[SQman]

Eh, I'm gonna just start over again, since updating mods that I've already included would be a lot of work anyway. At least Primal doesn't require any fiddling, just adding new creatures.

I had been using several creature classes to define reaction immunities, just so that mods could work better together, and I gotta admit it wasn't exactly a well thought out system. Today I've made a new plan based of what I had learned the last time:

Spoiler: creature classes (click to show/hide)

*alignment
EVIL
GOOD
(These are defined by [GOOD] and [EVIL] tokens in most cases. Useful for smiting of all sorts.)

*type
MONSTER (all sorts of non-humanoid beings, mostly hostile and dangerous)
    WEREBEAST (non-vanilla werebeasts, even those not actually affected by a curse)
    DRAGON (dragons, wyverns, drakes, wyrms, whatever else)
HUMANOID
   MONSTROUS_HUMANOID (a humanoid with monstrous features that doesn't fall under any other category, like vanilla troll)
    DWARF
   ELF
   GNOME
   KOBOLD
   GREENSKIN (orcs, goblins, gremlins, bugbears, hobgoblins; don't have to have green skin)
      ORC (orcs and porcine humanoids)
      GOBLIN (goblins and bugbears)
   BEASTMAN (vanilla animal men, antropomorphic animals)
      DOGHEAD (gnolls, cynocephali, this sort of things; one plant from one mod is supposed to be killing gnolls)
   GIANT (including ogres)
UNDEAD
   VAMPIRE (non-undead vampires possible)
ABERRATION (aside from eldritch creatures and mutants, includes completely alien looking monsters such as green devourers)
   ELDRITCH
   MUTANT
FEY (fairies, nymphs, house spirits, nuckelavee)
OUTSIDER (beings from other planes of existence)
   ELEMENTAL
      FIRE_ELEMENTAL
      WATER_ELEMENTAL
      EARTH_ELEMENTAL
      AIR_ELEMENTAL
      DARK_ELEMENTAL (personifications of both literal darkness and evil)
      LIGHT_ELEMENTAL (personifications of both literal light and good)
   FIEND (demons, devils, yugoloths, demodands, night hags)
   CELESTIAL (angels, mostly)
CONSTRUCT
   GOLEM (purely magically animated constructs)
   AUTOMATON (constructs powered by clockwork mechanisms, steam power, springs, rubber bands etc)
   ROBOT (electronic constructs, mostly alien in origin; includes vehicles and other non-humanoids)
OOZE (slimes, jellies, but not molds)
PLANT (plants, fungi, lichens)
ALIEN (extraterrestrials)
INCORPOREAL (creatures with no physical body, including ghosts)
GAS (creatures composed of gases, including fire)
LIQUID (creatures composed of liquids)
INORGANIC (creatures made of inorganic materials)

*immunities
FIREIMMUNE   (imune to fire)
SHOCKIMMUNE   (immune to electricity)
ACIDIMMUNE   (immune to acid)
COLDIMMUNE   (immune to cold)
DISEASEIMMUNE   (immune to disease)
PSYIMMUNE   (immune to psionics)
SOUNDIMMUNE   (immune to sound-based interactions)
SMELLIMMUNE   (immune to smell-based interactions)
SIGHTIMMUNE   (immune to sight-based interactions)
PETRIFYIMMUNE   (immune to petrification)
NECROIMMUNE   (immune to death magic; spells that cause harm or pain)
CURSEIMMUNE   (immune to curses; spells that simply lower stats)
MAGICIMMUNE   (immune to magic)
TURNIMMUNE   (immune to turn undead)
NORAISE      (can't be raised)

*other
ABOLETHIC   (aboleths and their slaves, skumm or others, allergic to abyss shade)
CANINE   (canines, allergic to wolfsbane. Includes dogs, painted dogs, jackals and coyotes, but not foxes, raccoon dogs and maned wolves)

*pets
DWARFPET
DROWPET
HITOPET   (Hito also get common domestic, but I don't want everybody have rokubi and shisa)
WOLF (brigand pet. I've split the wolf creature into gray, red and arctic wolves, plus dire wolves and whatever other mods add)

If there are other categories I might have missed, I'm very much open to suggestions.

[Teneb]

I like those classes. Sure, I even recognize some of them (especially the damage ones) as mine.

But I think we could do a lot for mod compatibility by standardizing this stuff.


EDIT: Now that I think about, maybe there could be a LIGHTIMMUNE class for resisting "holy" damage?

[SQman]

Your immunity classes were an inspiration and a base for my creature class system, actually. Good thing your Monster Manual mod was at the top of the list when I was beginning, otherwise I'd have had a lot of revisions to do.

Added HOLYIMMUNE to the list, because I can see it being useful.


Now the really exciting stuff, namely three mods incorporated:

More Leather mod by sackhead

A kea is butchered for exactly one unit of leather, and that's not a problem. The problem is that an elephant also yields one leather (if not dismembered). More Leather mod is a simple fix for that. It turns skin into glob and modifies the tanning reaction to turn said globs into leather. Thanks to those changes, the amount of leather depends on the creature's size.

I've made a simple personal modification to the modification - scale and chitin are also tannable, and they tan into... scale and chitin. What's the point of having dinosaurs if you can't turn their scales into shoes?

Kazoo's Silk Eggs by Kazoo

This mod is one of the best (in my opinion) solution to the common silk problem, namely the lack thereof. It introduces one domestic animal - the tunnel tarantula - a small, non-venomous spider that lays eggs made partially of silk. A new workshop running a new reaction turns the eggs into silk automatically, so you better keep an eye on those nest boxes if you want to breed some spiders!

The mod also changes giant cave spiders to make them lay silk eggs, but annoyingly doesn't give them the child token. I had to fix that myself, and since I was at it, I also modified jumping spiders and brown recluse spiders. Now you too can breed your own fully tame giant jumping spiders.

This little modification was featured in Dungeonevened where the majority of produced silk came from drowspider eggs.

Monsters of Majesty by Untrustedlife

Majesty was a series I have complicated feelings for. On one hand it was a unique experience that just kept giving once you got the things going. At the same time, if you couldn't make things work fast enough, your little town died a slow death, eaten from inside by ratmen while your replacement wizards were being slaughtered by things far above their skill level.

This mod can't replicate this experience for the sole reason that your dwarves aren't motivated solely by greed and suicidal tendencies. Other than that, it makes a good effort at replicating some of the monsters. It's a bit rough around the edges; some creatures are missing cluster numbers, some have duplicate tokens. I also messed around with frequencies and population numbers, and added silk eggs to spiders.

Can't wait to slay some of the monsters once there's enough content for a test playthrough.


And, uh, yeah, I am aware that there's crashing problems in the current version. That will be... troublesome if Toady doesn't do something about it. Something meaningful, that is.

[voliol]

I’d consider updating my mod to follow this creature class system. I have a minor criticism though, namely that I’d prefer the BEASTMAN token to be ANIMALMAN, both to avoid confusion with humanoids that are ”beastlike” meaning ”barbaric”, and that Scourge’s Exctinct creatures mod already used that, so there is some precedence.

Regarding that mod, I’ve pushed for he inclusion of its EXTINCT creature class into some other mods previously, so let me repeat that action here. :p

Oh, and I also do not like foxes not being CANINE, as they certainly belong to Canidae, and are thus proper canines. It’s pedantry, of course, but I find that pedantry has some use when trying to set up general categories for others to use. It is also in line with the vanilla MAMMAL token, that seems to pertain to all creatures that in Mammalia.

Otherwise this list looks very good to me. Of course some modders might want to use unique classes, but having a framework for e.g. magic mods (of which there are many) so they can work in conjunction instead of just clashing is a great idea.

[Enemy post]

Most of Primal's creatures are already tagged as extinct.

[voliol]

Most of Primal's creatures are already tagged as extinct.

For the class list, I meant

[Eric Blank]

Myotragus/cave goat's milk production should probably be slower than other species'. I don't think there's evidence of that, but they are tiny, and have a slow metabolism, so it makes sense they'd take longer to produce a harvestable amount.

Spellcrafts turned out to be easy to update but all the entities are causing crashes during worldgen and I'm struggling to get them all updated still.

[Enemy post]

Also, they're closer to sheep than actual goats and we have some evidence that humans started and abandoned an attempt to domesticate them. I might remove their dairy products.

[SQman]

I’d consider updating my mod to follow this creature class system. I have a minor criticism though, namely that I’d prefer the BEASTMAN token to be ANIMALMAN, both to avoid confusion with humanoids that are ”beastlike” meaning ”barbaric”, and that Scourge’s Exctinct creatures mod already used that, so there is some precedence.

Regarding that mod, I’ve pushed for he inclusion of its EXTINCT creature class into some other mods previously, so let me repeat that action here. :p

Truth be told, I've only gone for BEASTMAN because it sounds cooler than ANIMALMAN. I suppose there's no harm in changing that now.
I do add EXTINCT where it's appropriate, I just forgot to list it.

Oh, and I also do not like foxes not being CANINE, as they certainly belong to Canidae, and are thus proper canines. It’s pedantry, of course, but I find that pedantry has some use when trying to set up general categories for others to use. It is also in line with the vanilla MAMMAL token, that seems to pertain to all creatures that in Mammalia.

I got confused there, falsely assuming that canines and canids are not the same things. Man, taxonomy is a joke. I was thinking about animals from the genus Canis plus African wild dogs and dholes. I don't see why foxes shouldn't be allergic to wolfsbane though, seeing how real life wolfsbane kills anything regardless of taxonomic position.

[SQman]

I've been a bit inactive lately, and I feel like I need to explain myself.

It's not about work, health, mood or anything like that; in fact it's a combination of me getting addicted to Rimworld and Darkest Dungeon again, getting new joycons for my Switch, and having started incorporating ZM5's Warcraft mod into the modpack. I hate warcraft with for its atrocious artstyle and design choices; every second on the wiki causes me physical pain. And there is a crapton of creatures.

On a higher note, I've added ZM5's Dragon's Ligma Dogma. I should play that game myself at some point... Anyway, the creatures aren't very interesting, mostly adhering closely to their mythical portrayal. It's a quality mod, so I can't complain.
In Dungeonevened there were leapworms, a lot of them. A panicking spinner could just kick a worm's teeth out, and if one of these critters got too close for comfort, they would got pre-chopped to be served with mussels.

Deon's Dwemer Fortress was less pleasant to work with. Standardization of materials was one thing, but the creatures... No effort was put into making those creatures - dreugh are just giant crabs, guars are beak dogs, ogrims are ogres, etc. I had to remake some stuff myself. Guars, now properly beakless, are the first DROWPETs, because drow and dunmer are all dark elves; sounds like good logic.
First new metals in the pack are ebony and elvenglaas. Dwemer metal is out for obvious reason.
Civilized races didn't make it either. They are just too iconic, and would not fit the modpack's theme at all. My main bois rieklings would fit in perfectly, but alas, they are not in the mod.
I may take a look at dragon shouts though.

Other than that, I've added SPOREIMMUNE class. It's for creatures unaffected by spores, pollen, seeds and other such things.
There are also UNDEADPET, ELDRITCHPET, and SEAPET classes so we don't have to wonder what skeletons need goats and geese for.

Now I'm going back to playing Darkest Dungeon working on mods.

[Enemy post]

If you hate Warcraft, why include it?

[SQman]

ZM5's main pack took way too long, but finally I managed to get through it.

Warcraft Pack is the biggest module, one that I hesitated to add to boot. Warcraft has rich lore and some creative designs (those that aren't just "lol antlers and glowing eyes"), but I can't quite get over the horribly unappealing artstyle. Here's where Dwarf Fortress comes to aid - no graphics means everything is left to imagination, and I don't feel like gouging my eyes out each time I see the TF2 Scout glowing lime green.
The pack is chok-full of civilized races, however I won't be adding them. Too iconic.

Dragon's Dogma pack I've talked about before, I believe. It gave us the tribal goblin civ.

OCs were a bit troublesome, really, not because there were serious errors, but because of the well-known bug where NO_EAT civilized creatures crash the game at worldgen. Most civs in the pack are NO_EAT, by the way. Easy fix.

Mythological pack also gifted us some civs: oni, draugr, and blemmyes. Other interesting stuff: I had to have a big think about gorgon nomenclature, because gorgons and Medusas appear both in this pack and in the Majesty mod, and they are all different. ZM5's gorgons are gorgons, ZM5's Medusas are medusas, Majesty gorgons are greater gorgons, while Majesty Medusas were renamed to viperfang gorgons because they paralyze through venomous bite.

Finally there's the Seven Deadly Sins pack. Not much to say about it, really.

Next, I'll be having a look at Splint's utility mods!

[SQman]

So, I got a little ambitious, perhaps too ambitious, and took on Genesis and Dark Ages. It was not fun, and it's all getting mixed together in my head, so I'm sorry if I confuse some features.

Genesis is ancient, so I was surprised how few interesting features there are. I took the altar of nature and the alchemist's lab, and most related reactions. Creatures in the mod are really basic and uninteresting. Civs, unfortunately, are too much of a hassle to include into the modpack.
Drows got themselves pekyts as a source of valuable leather, cave beetles and cave tortoises for... something.

Dark Ages is sort of a modpack itself, incorporating features from DDD, Fear the Night, Direforged, and some others. The most memorable part was dealing with many secrets and curses: vampires, werebeasts, evil sorcerers and the like.
Entities had to be ditched for the same reason as the ones from Genesis.
Loft owls have returned, this time hunting vermin alongside drow spiders, and cave lynxes will be hunting with cavvekans. Drows will also enjoy the company of delicious giant cave lobsters and cave silkworms that produce cheap silk while having short lifespan.

While I'm glad I'm done with those two mods, a serious problem appeared: worldgen crashes at placing civilization. All entities are from ZM5'S and Teneb's mods, so I suspected it wasn't their fault. I was right; after removing Monstrous Manual entities it still crashed, then the same happened without ZM5's civs. Then I managed to finally create a smaller world with very few civilizations. Then I realized - I forgot to make duergars unplayable, so the game generated a world with no dwarves.
Knowing that dwarves were somehow at fault, I deleted entity_default. The world managed to place civs, but couldn't create underground entities, but that's okay.
Now I'm not sure what to do about it. The entity_default is complately vanilla. Dwarves were only given creature classes. There is no errorlog or anything. I gotta run some more tests, because I had to stop before getting any acceptable results - late night troubleshooting isn't a big deal if you don't have to get up to work the next day. Unfortunately I do have to.