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[hector13]

Iain eyes Drojand, looking concerned.

“I know these are your people, duke, but we must consider all possibilities. I assume you want us to fund this project?”

[UristMcRiley]

Marquis Belemar of House Tyrill stands interjecting himself into the discussion as he stands his bronze armor jingles and clanks
"Gentleman I must say that from the bottom of my heart that this issue is beneath the royal court three mills burnt down is hardly something new be it a meditated scheme or simple chance it is simply not a issue befitting his highness King Harald. I also find myself struggling to believe these mills are completely destroyed even with the timbers burnt and the mechanisms that drove it are destroyed the mill stones within are likely to be fine perhaps a little sooty but still usable our we to believe the serfs are not capable of cutting a few timbers and constructing simple man or animal driven mills without are help. I know the common folk are often uneducated and simple but even they are capable of something like that. Let them sort it out it was either there evil hearts or lackadaisical attitudes in regards to there camp fires or oven flames that caused this incident thus it ought be theirs to fix."

[hector13]

((What’s the process for negotiating bribes? Are we allowed to PM each other? If we do, do we have to cc you, Ghazkull?))

[Naturegirl1999]

Spoiler: OOC question (click to show/hide)

How would I join?

[LovecraftianFairyTale]

Throughout the entirety of this conversation, Duke Emmanuel Orburg of Natar had been repeatedly flipping a coin, not looking at it’s result before flipping it again. Everyone who knew him well enough, including the Dukes in this room, would recognise this as the peculiar nervous tic of Duke Emmanuel that only shows itself in two scenarios. When he’s deep in thought-

“You’re all being terribly impolite to Duke Drojand today.”

-or whenever he was irritated. The coin flipping stopped as he started to speak.

“I know not whether it was hooligans or money-pinchers that burned down the windmills, nor does it matter. What does matter is that if we don’t fund the mill’s reconstruction, then any town that relies on those mills may go hungry, and potentially even cause people in that town to starve. You all may roll your eyes as much as you like, but I actually care for the wellbeing of commoners in the kingdom, and would prefer that they not be incapacitated.”

[Shadowclaw777]

As this conversation is ongoing, Marquis Maximillio is reading a fancy leather-back book on a work of fiction that one of his privately hired authors sent him, and he sees the conversation make a dramatic shift in its state and puts the book back on the table and bring his eyes towards the conversation.

”Why yes, this conversation is indeed shifting into an full-disclosed argument we should direct our thoughts to the matter on hand. As for my own, I feel as though funding the reconstruction efforts is the more ethical and late-game planning action to calm down those peasants, and that the refunding will probably go for my own vote, it seems we would lose the economic welfare and plausible future bad events in the double negative event instead of gaining back some welfare if we are to show some kindness back to the people, but I slightly stick with abstaining unless I can get decently convinced otherwise.”

[mightymushroom]

The stout Drojand's face turns nearly as red as the lobster emblem on his doublet while Marquis Belemar speaks. "Just a little sooty!" he sputters. "The serfs can just go to the forest and chop down a new wind mill like they grow on trees! The blades, the gears, the axles, the brake, the clutch; several tons of machinery that needs to be balanced within the width of a single seed, every piece of wood swells in the damp and shrinks in the dry, and you call a master tradesman an uneducated serf! As for why we don't do it ourselves, we've already made what arrangements we can afford. But the project needs wages; as well during the interim the people need food, we need to send the crops in the affected county abroad to a working mill, in short we need wagons and drivers.

"Look at your maps. Gamam is among the smallest territories. Yet we're expected to pay as much in taxes as any duchy and, I believe, more than several of the Marks who get a discount for guarding the border. Do I want the resolution to succeed? Yes, of course! But it is a means to an end. What Gamam requires is more Coin. I had hoped the Crown and Council would clearly see its duty to those whom it claims to protect.

"But if you need incentive to head off the threat of food riots in the heart of the kingdom, how is this: with any funds that may prove to be surplus, and I remind you Gamamen do not waste our resources, with any surplus I shall myself undertake to retain our craftsmen to accomplish similar improvements in any land who materially supports us, once our crisis is past."

Duke Drojand (and/or his successor) is offering to return some Coins before the next issue is decided, gratis and with no strings attached, to a noble or coalition who is willing to pay him now. Except Tyrill, he seems to feel his whole people have been insulted in that quarter. For a nay vote, House Compadde will attempt to return anything in excess of 3 Coins. For an aye vote, he will also have the King's money to spend and may be able to return all but one of the Coins, depending on the exact makeup of the coalition.

[Ghazkull]

((Negotiating bribes comes down to simply both parties agreeing to it. You can PM each other for Bribes although i would prefer to keep things in thread, so preferably you spoiler your messages to other players if you feel the need for secrecy.

Naturegirl you can join with the next decision. just send me a pm with 3 houses you have interest in))

[hector13]

Iain of Wylio cocks an eyebrow in the direction of Drojand.

“Taxes are paid on landholdings and economic activity, as well you know. You pay, proportionally, the same as we all do, so playing the victim card will win you no sympathy here.

To be frank, you are my neighbour, and I am willing to guarantee your people reasonable prices for the use of our mills, as well as the wagons and drivers to transport your grain to and from. This is expensive, however, and I would need some of these expenses covered...”

[mightymushroom]

"I am told I must pay 'proportional' to whatever the tax assessor says I must. The more work we put in to improving the land and the city, the less we get to keep. More importantly, is outlay going to be 'proportional' to contribution? Now that Gamam has need, all the Council seems to say is 'Ah, it's a local problem, take care of it yourself.'"

“This is expensive, however, and I would need some of these expenses covered...”

"And doesn't this top off my plea. What part of 'We've suffered misfortune, we need coin to get us through' did you think means I am in position to pay you up front?"

[UristMcRiley]

Belemar's Face goes a bright red as his knuckles whiten with strain as he aggressive grips the table
"Forgive me for suggesting that some parts of the Windmill's could likely be salvaged and re used without the need for any monetary investment on behalf of the Kings Council, but while im apologizing forgive me for thinking you easterners are capable of reason forgive me for thinking your nobleman would be capable of putting down a few angry peasants but you as your liege have so little faith in them truly these mills are a dire issue. Forgive me for thinking nobleman must remain impartial and upright in the face of scorn no clearly you are just as emotional as  a petulant child. However I must admit your problems are yours and i will abide by the councils decisions and i hope in the future you will be more reasonable."

With that Belemar departs the council hall and is Abstaining from the vote

[hector13]

"I am told I must pay 'proportional' to whatever the tax assessor says I must. The more work we put in to improving the land and the city, the less we get to keep. More importantly, is outlay going to be 'proportional' to contribution? Now that Gamam has need, all the Council seems to say is 'Ah, it's a local problem, take care of it yourself.'"

"The cost of being in a kingdom, my friend. Your gold pays for the soldiers that keep our merchants safe on the roads and our borders secure from potential invaders. It pays for the administrators that make sure the money goes where it's needed... for example, when we vote to support your lands and rebuild your mills."

“This is expensive, however, and I would need some of these expenses covered...”

"And doesn't this top off my plea. What part of 'We've suffered misfortune, we need coin to get us through' did you think means I am in position to pay you up front?"

Iain laughs heartily.

"Why, due diligence, dear boy! You spend a penny today to avoid losing many more tomorrow.

The dilemma we face is to rebuild the mills. That means the King's coin will be paying for the mills should we vote aye.

This means you - or your people, though I doubt they'd be pleased with that - will be paying to re-route the grain elsewhere. Re-routing the grain elsewhere does not guarantee the prices I will, almost literally next door. The further you have to go, the more you have to pay the driver, the more the wagons need to be maintained, and the more feed the animals need to get back and forth. And this on top of the cost to actually mill the grain!

Equally so, there is the potential for bandits. This requires guards, and still you may lose your harvest or parts thereof to even the pettiest thief with a quick mind for business, and even quicker hand.

If you agree to my proposal, I will make sure that the millers in my part don't try to profit - well, profit too much - from your miller's misfortune. I will provide the means to transport your grain and keep it safe, thus making sure your people can focus solely on rebuilding their ability to actually feed themselves.

Goodness me, I didn't even think of this before! I could even carry some bread your way in the short-term, so you don't even have to worry about your people starving while the grain is being milled over in my lands!

Iain laughs again, before a serious look passes over his face.

"However, I cannot do this without recompense. My people have their own needs, and while I sympathise with the plight of yours, I cannot overlook my own flock.

If I am to be honest with you, my people could profit a great deal from what your people are going through. We are one of your closest neighbours, and one of the first places your farmers will look to sell their grain because they can't do it closer to home. Should your people discover that you were offered the chance to make their plight easier and you refused in order to save yourself a few coins...

Iain pauses for a moment and then scoffs.

"Well, the potential for food riots would be the least of your worries.

To be perfectly honest, a mere abstention from me would be welcomed in my lands. I personally don't wish to see unnecessary suffering, and I believe the bonds between our lands, perhaps even you and I, could be made stronger if you agree to grease the wheels on my side a little.

Think on it. You would be loved by your people for buying food for them out of your own pocket, and not letting them starve because of some drunken fool."

[mightymushroom]

After Drojand and Belemar finish both their outbursts, Drojand sinks back into his chair, face buried in his hands. He doesn't appear to be weeping, but he is a picture of exhaustion . . . .


The roleplay is fun and all. But it doesn't seem to getting us much closer to any deals during the deal-making round. So new plan.

Keep in mind that whatever my roleplay says, these aren't really "my" mills. It's the Kingdom stats that'll be going up and down. I have no more to lose or gain than anybody else who might have drawn a Wealth or Welfare agenda. I've chosen, not to ignore, but certainly to suppress my given agenda this first round so that I can jump fully in and get into the spirit of bartering rather than being my usual cautious self. Now if only I could persuade someone else to jump in with me.

Maybe you missed the opportunity you had with my impetuous offer? You might have made me spend all my Power and given your Coin back, crippling my duchy. Well, that's off the table now.

Maybe everyone is afraid of losing ground by being the first to name a price? Fine. 1 Coin for my vote aye or nay, and 1 Coin for each Power you want me to put behind it. But wait, there's more! In this introductory round offer, pay me in multiples of two and I will refund half your Coins if we're on the winning side; or a full refund if we're on the losing side. It's a win-win! Well, a win-draw at least. There's a good chance of swinging the vote your way, and no risk to you if it doesn't work out.

If for some reason you really, really want me to abstain, well I'm not sure how to value that. Make me an offer.

Spoiler: @ Natar (click to show/hide)

Since you've taken the strongest "aye" position so far, I'm making a special offer to Duke Emmanuel. Pay me in multiples of three and I'll return 2/3 on success, or all on failure of course. It's more likely to pass if we combine our Power to make it happen.

Spoiler: @ Wylio (click to show/hide)

You can't pitch to me to pay for "my" side when I haven't chosen a side yet. Additionally, for my roleplay

(You) often complaint that you pay too much taxes. You feel that your relationship with the crown is a one-way road, you pay them and they repay you with more taxes.

If you want my money you'll have to make a much more interesting offer than RP fluff that contradicts my own attempted positioning as a vote mercenary.

Spoiler: @ Tyrill (click to show/hide)

My role message is pretty clear that

you are skilled tradesmen and hard workers. You are constantly busy people and always like to complain that you cannot enjoy the fruits of your labour . . . You are proud of your efficiency and wealth

So it's unfortunate but I get the impression that mercantile Drojand and the princely, martial Belemar would not ordinarily get along. Unless they had a mutual interest, of course. My newest offer (half back on success, full refund on loss) is available to Tyrill as well. Just saying.

[notquitethere]

Humphrey rustles his papers, the universal sign of wanting to get on with business. "Having listened to all, I am of a mind to vote in favour," he says, "The mills must be rebuilt, and the cost to the purse might be even greater if there's a delay. Though it could set a troublesome precedent, I don't believe this arson was the work of the millers this time and I'm sorry to have dragged the conversation in that direction.  It's clear what the correct thing to do is."

[mightymushroom, I'm very much in favour of your kind of play, but in this particular case I have no great stake in the outcome either way so have no interest in paying. Maybe next dilemma.]

Move to begin the voting phase

[Ghazkull]

((if somebody seconds notquitethere i will move to the next phase...if someone wants to veto him to continue discussing the dilemma that is of course also possible.))