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Author Topic: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection  (Read 26726 times)

hector13

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #405 on: May 22, 2024, 06:37:44 pm »

Well, theoretically it’s investing in your future because an educated workforce is likely to be a high(er) skilled workforce, which will result in higher tax incomes due to higher wages and purchasing power fueling growth.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Maximum Spin

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #406 on: May 22, 2024, 09:48:13 pm »

Hrm. I had to do some reading; I didn't realize that such a high percentage of all student loans in the US was, in fact, federal; I thought more was private.  I think this was because my loan servicer was not the government but some random bank... or maybe that's just how the Direct loans worked...

It's still unclear, though, if the government is better spending "tax dollars" on loan forgiveness versus whatever we'd have to spend them on if we didn't forgive the loans.  No such thing as a free lunch, and all that...
The government can't legally forgive loans from OTHER PEOPLE, unless it, well, pays them back with taxpayer money; it would violate the Fifth Amendment takings clause, since a debt is an asset the lender owns. All the student loan forgiveness being bandied around is debts from the government itself.

It's extremely unlikely that loan forgiveness will change any other category of government spending for the smaller, especially since college graduates are considerably richer on average than non-graduates. Student loan forgiveness is in this sense a large wealth transfer to the rich.



Well, theoretically it’s investing in your future because an educated workforce is likely to be a high(er) skilled workforce, which will result in higher tax incomes due to higher wages and purchasing power fueling growth.
That's what the intent behind the original loan was meant to be, yes, but forgiving it will not now alter the composition of the workforce in any way unless there is some subtle knock-on effect of making people more likely to take bigger student loans in the future counting on them being forgiven (which is probably not a great idea, let's be honest).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 09:50:57 pm by Maximum Spin »
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McTraveller

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #407 on: May 23, 2024, 07:00:30 am »

The government can't legally forgive loans from OTHER PEOPLE, unless it, well, pays them back with taxpayer money

Ah I should clarify: I meant that I didn't realize that so much of the total student loan balance was federal, meaning I didn't think that there would be that much of a burden on "the taxpayer" in the first place.  But something like 92-93% of all student loans are federal, apparently.  I didn't mean to suggest that the government was redeeming private loans.
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Chevaleresse

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #408 on: May 23, 2024, 12:28:10 pm »

...You do realize wealthy people don't need student loans, right? Relief is primarily targeted at people who aren't able to pay off their loans due to the hilariously bad job market despite being college-educated.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #409 on: May 23, 2024, 01:00:34 pm »

Nevertheless, statistics clearly show that recipients are richer on average than non-graduates.
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hector13

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #410 on: May 23, 2024, 01:42:47 pm »

That’s probably because graduates tend to earn more :p

In part as a consequence of having to service student loans.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Chevaleresse

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #411 on: May 23, 2024, 01:43:45 pm »

That doesn’t mean "student loan forgiveness is a wealth transfer to the rich" is a sensible statement. It is objectively not that, it is a wealth transfer to people who are trying to overcome poverty by educating themselves.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #412 on: May 23, 2024, 11:26:55 pm »

That doesn’t mean "student loan forgiveness is a wealth transfer to the rich" is a sensible statement. It is objectively not that, it is a wealth transfer to people who are trying to overcome poverty by educating themselves.
Considering rich people don't need student loans, "student loan forgiveness is a wealth transfer to the rich"" is clearly Rich propaganda.

hector13

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #413 on: May 24, 2024, 12:07:01 am »

Well, graduates earn more, so it’s not exactly taking from the rich and giving to the poor.

From my own experience, it does seem as though the loans are basically expected to be forgiven rather than repaid. Income based repayment stuff can reduce your monthly payment to zero depending on circumstances.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

EuchreJack

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #414 on: June 07, 2024, 10:28:30 pm »

I'm getting sick of "Opposite Day" stock market, where Good News is BAD because everyone wants the Fed Rate to drop sooner rather than later.

Granted, I am smart enough to know why the high rate is a risk to Rich Fucks. And I would like to borrow money someday, so I am also someone that would like the rates to drop eventually. But isn't there anything else to the Economy?

Maximum Spin

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #415 on: June 07, 2024, 11:45:45 pm »

I'm getting sick of "Opposite Day" stock market, where Good News is BAD because everyone wants the Fed Rate to drop sooner rather than later.

Granted, I am smart enough to know why the high rate is a risk to Rich Fucks. And I would like to borrow money someday, so I am also someone that would like the rates to drop eventually. But isn't there anything else to the Economy?
Right now? Pretty much no.
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Duuvian

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #416 on: June 10, 2024, 06:50:30 am »

Here's stuff EJ. For some reason investors are trying to decide whether to be convinced.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/market-how-us-is-daring-world-find-dollar-alternative-2024-06-10/

From articles is in quotes
1: "The United States is merrily chipping away at the pillars that hold up the dollar as the world's reserve currency, with the latest blows coming from some powerful Americans questioning the rule of law following the conviction of Donald Trump."

2: "And the West is pushing the envelope further. The financial executive said the discussion that the West might seize some $300 billion of sovereign Russian assets that were blocked over Ukraine undermined the United States' safe haven status. "The West crossed a Rubicon there," the executive said."

   Note that the executive may have fallen victim to an information operation. See recent ISW reports such as towards the end of
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-7-2024

3: "A major investor based in Asia said potential threats to U.S. institutions were also worrying. Any debasing of the Federal Reserve's authority -- as Trump allies are reportedly contemplating -- would affect the dollar’s credibility, the investor said, adding that such a development could see a double-digit depreciation of the currency."

   There is lkely heavy propaganda telling people to have a Trump scenario, probably in hopes that they may be convinced to react to what he says to some degree just in case he would win.

4: "An Asia-based investor said he was watching another court case closely to test the strength of the rule of law: ByteDance's challenge of a U.S. ban on TikTok. He is watching for the evidence that the U.S. government would produce to back up claims of the app being a national security threat."

   How my fat guy stuck in internet bookmark folder relates to this.
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

McTraveller

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #417 on: June 10, 2024, 07:04:40 am »

Ehh.... that's veering a little off economics into politics, though I do appreciate there is some mutual influence.  Those factors are all political, not "core economic", such as the ability to actually produce goods and services.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #418 on: June 10, 2024, 01:43:46 pm »

Ehh.... that's veering a little off economics into politics, though I do appreciate there is some mutual influence.  Those factors are all political, not "core economic", such as the ability to actually produce goods and services.
2 and 3 are definitely "core economic" insofar as the ability to attract investment capital is a key economic factor.
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McTraveller

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Re: Armchair Economics Thread - Re-Resurrection
« Reply #419 on: June 10, 2024, 02:10:11 pm »

By "core economic" I mean actual production of goods and services. Anything involving money - especially politically motivated flows of money - is a secondary influence (perhaps strong at times!) since the flow of money merely influences the production of goods and services; it doesn't actually produce anything.

I can try to be better making my use of terms more explicit to avoid confusion and/or misunderstanding.
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